Originally posted by BeiTangLang
They need to know more about a system than an obscure story to convince them that they system protrayed is legitimate; The Corja site does not do this. All it does is send the all to familiar alarms of being made up. No, I am not saying that it is made up, but that the website sends that alarm to most of us here.
I posted the link in case anyone is interested in training, I think the best think you can do is go and have a look at the class and have a spar with some of the students if you want to find out more rather than just talk about the linage which has not been posted on the website.
Can any of you honestly tell me your styles have not been altered since they were designed? If Sifu Alim has decided to teach his style that way then that is what he believes works, please do not disrespect him if you have never met him simply because his style appears to differ slightly from yours.
If you’re in the UK you may have seen some of the school winning various competitions (inc. BCCMA), if not then keep an eye out in future.
Originally posted by KungFuLondon I posted the link in case anyone is interested in training, I think the best think you can do is go and have a look at the class and have a spar with some of the students if you want to find out more rather than just talk about the linage which has not been posted on the website.
If I lived anywhere near there I would be glad to. All I did was ask…sorry if you have a problem with that. I was not the only one to make the querry. So is the lineage information available to a prospective student that walks in off the street?
Originally posted by KungFuLondon
Can any of you honestly tell me your styles have not been altered since they were designed? If Sifu Alim has decided to teach his style that way then that is what he believes works, please do not disrespect him if you have never met him simply because his style appears to differ slightly from yours.
I have never seen nor heard of the style, which is why I asked you the question. If you’ll note, " No, I am not saying that it is made up, but that the website sends that alarm to most of us here.", kinda says that.
All I was asking is where did the art that he teaches come from. An originating chinese branch perhapse could be mentioned? As another member stated, it would be interesting to find out the answers & to see what it looks like. This would open up a whole new set of questions & possibly answers to other questions for the mantis historian types in the forum.
Originally posted by KungFuLondon
If you’re in the UK you may have seen some of the school winning various competitions (inc. BCCMA), if not then keep an eye out in future.
I’m not in the UK, so I guess I’ll just have to keep an eye out.
Oh,…one more question; “If Sifu Alim has decided to teach his style that way then that is what he believes works..”
Teach his style what way??
Thanks for taking the time to post! I look forward to more information!
~BTL
Hi All
I have come across this as one of the students in Sifu Alim’s class advised me of what is going on in this forum and to be honest i find it very interesting.
I can see that there seems to be a question on the lineage that links Alim with Northern Mantis. The website clearly states the name of his teacher and also gives a very brief summary of his teacher stating that he migrated from China to Indonesia. So the question should be who did his teacher train with???
Some more information for you guys is that the website is not actually Alims website, it is a website about Corja Shantung Kungfu and he is the Chief Instructor of the system at the moment. The website has been put together by some of his students with a bit of his help.
As for the Lineage i would let Alim reveal that to the rest of the world when he wants to as that is up to him and i can let you know now that none of his students know the lineage as Alim does not speak much about his history (he prefers to teach).
At the end of the day i am sure anyone training in Gungfu and has a good knowledge of the system they are training in will have their own views on different things. A good example is me… I really do not care who taught my Sifu Kung fu just as long as i am learning and continue to improve (you never know, one day i might care). When i was Schoot i never asked any of my teachers who taught them (I know Kung Fu is different bt this is just an example)
Anyone in the UK knows about the BCCMA (the governing body for chinese martial arts in the UK) and Alim has been a member for well over 15 years and he is well respected amongst diffferent Mantis Masters in the UK.
However it is nice to hear other peoples views and i do agree with the quote “because my teacher told me so is not good enough”. I doubt Alim would ever say this without explaining himself.
Oh,…one more question; “If Sifu Alim has decided to teach his style that way then that is what he believes works..”
Teach his style what way??
Hey buddy,
Well people were questioning not learning forms for 5 years or something, Sifu Alim tends to break forms down and focus on the basics, it is not till you have been going for a few months you start to learn your first form. The system concentrates mroe on the basics than forms at first and as you progress you learn 2 man forms (every form has an attacking and defending side so you fuly understand what you are doing).
Seems people will question anything. First it’s too much forms training now it’s not enough forms training. Ya just can’t win.
Anyhow, no need to get defensive guys. Just polite inquiries so far. If this was on the main forum it would be ripped to shreds by now.
If Alim Sifu wishes to field some questions it would be awesome. However there seems to be some inconsistencies and I believe it would be in his best interest to offer some additional info before everyone passes judgement based on what we know now.
For instance the website claims Corja Shantung is the original NPM yet
“Can any of you honestly tell me your styles have not been altered since they were designed? If Sifu Alim has decided to teach his style that way then that is what he believes works, please do not disrespect him if you have never met him simply because his style appears to differ slightly from yours.”
Is it original or altered? Does it appear to differ from ours is a question we can’t answer because we don’t know what it looks like, what sets are involved, what moves are in the system, etc.
That’s why we question it, not because we think he’s a fake. I’m all for giving people the benefit of doubt until something comes along to change that opinion.
“The website clearly states the name of his teacher”
Apparently his teacher is not well known in the Mantis community.
We do approximatly the same thing. 5 years is a bit much! LOL!
Have you observed any other mantis styles? How do the systems look the same/diferent?
I noticed in quite a few of the images from the sites I looked at that the system sems very aerial. Is this common or are these moves just for public demo’s?
Hello TPM and KungFuLondon . It is good to have some input from your school . Please do not be on the defensive as we are not being rude it is just general interest . The Northern Mantis community is a very closed circle in the U.K. with not many qualified Shifus and yes they all do know each other as a couple have been here promoting their mantis for many years .
We may not have crossed paths before as we do not affiliate to the BCCMA and have not entered tournaments for many years . It was about 1996 in Milton Keynes at the WOMAT tournament that we first came across a school doing northern mantis . After polite enquiries into what branch we were rudely told there was only one style of northern mantis and to go away . It was like nothing we had ever seen before . This is why I may appear to be rude .
Mantis boxing is alive and strong in the U.K. ( I have been lucky enough to either know or have trained with many of the major players here ) . It is good to know you guys are out there and promoting your branch of the style .
I can recommend the Mantis Quarterly Magazine for you guys to read as it will give you all a better understanding of the rest of us and what is important to us about are mantis boxing
Again please do not judge us, some of us are just interested in mantis boxing and having not come across you before would like to know more about you .
Out of interest which other mantis Masters in the U.K. do you know of ?
Originally posted by BeiTangLang
[B]Have you observed any other mantis styles? How do the systems look the same/diferent?
I noticed in quite a few of the images from the sites I looked at that the system sems very aerial. Is this common or are these moves just for public demo’s?
Yeah mate, a lot of the system is firmly on the ground, I think TPM could answer this better than me though!
I have seen a couple of other mantis (northern) styles at the BCCMA, I wasn’t especially impressed, I have a friend who does a form of southern mantis though who I thought was excellent. I rpefer the footwork of the northern styles though.
Originally posted by FEELERSTRIKE After polite enquiries into what branch we were rudely told there was only one style of northern mantis and to go away . It was like nothing we had ever seen before . This is why I may appear to be rude .
I can assure you that you would not that reception from anyone at my school.
As regards schools I have not seen many northern stylres in London, most seem to be southern, eg. paul whitrod.
Hi Feelerstrike and everyone else.
Just to let everyone know i was not being defensive in anyway as i actually have nothing to defend. The website is not mine and i am not the founder of Corja Shantung Mantis Kungfu System, However i have been training in that system for quite a while and i am one of the Seniors in the class (all seniors have passed the instructors examination). What did shock me was that no one actually asked about the actual Kungfu in the system, everyone was more concerned about history of the style and its origin (dont get me wrong, history is important).
I have met Sifu Derick Fearson (sorry if i have spelt the name wrong) and another Sifu of 7 star Praying Mantis who teaches in East London ( I have forgotten his name but he is quite well known in Mantis circles at least in the UK).
For those in the UK, you know where we are based, when you have the time please come down and visit. If you want let me know when you are comming down and i will make sure i am in the class and i will introduce you to Alim and yu can ask him the questions that you want, although i dont think he will give you much information.
I cant remember who it was but someone in the forum was asking about the pictures on the website. Well apart from the competition section the rest of the pictures are during demonstrations and are not he actual techniques.
For me, the reason I didn’t ask untill later is that if I know the lineage & I can find it, I know approximately what kind of kf he teaches by default.
I also asked if the similarities/differences between what you guys do & what other mantis guys do, if you have had the chance to observe them.
I was the one that asked about the images,..thanks for answering!
Looking forward to hearing more about the system.
~BTL
I’m going to bail out of this one unless the Corja group decides to share some info. I just think it’s a little odd (and rude) to go through the trouble of making a public announcement that the schools website is up and then retreat when people ask a few questions. If you want to stay private then that’s fine, just don’t go attracting attention to yourself by making public announcements.
BTW TPM, around here if you say you train Northern Mantis the first question everyone asks is “what lineage?” Nobody asks about the actual kung fu because, well, they already know it’s NPM. Knowing which lineage tells them the flavor and which sets are involved. Since Corja Shantung has numbered sets it’s pretty much useless asking which sets you play. Answers like 3, 6 and 7 mean nothing to them.
TPM ,
Shifu Derek Frearson is the U.K. representative of Lee Kam Wings lineage in the U.K. and most of the instructors you will come ascross down south are from his branch . All the others are from up country with my Shifu Paul Drummond in the midlands , Derek Frearson in Leicester and Shifu Michael Lee in Yorkshire area . All of us are from the 7 Star branch of northern praying mantis .
Hi All
Hua Lin Laoshi, i understand why people would want to know the history of Corja Shantung Mantis, however The People who have set up the website do not have the family tree of Alim and maybe something can be learnt from this. Sometimes it might be best not to start something without the full information at the same time as KungfuLondon has pointed out that the website was posted here so that people who were or are looking for a Northern Mantis system in the area could be aware that one does exist.
As for Alim, he will continue running his school as he always has. History or the family tree is nothing something that he shares easily and to be honset i already know that his own teacher is not known as i searched for some evidence of him years ago and came up with nothing. If you are a student of Alim’s then you will get an answer from him ( i must admit that it could take about 2years for the full and complete answer)
The system is tought in a number format system and i believe that this is just to break down the language barrier however there is a name for every form that is done. As you know it takes some people up to 5 years before they actually start doing the Shantung Mantis Forms and you will have to get to that level before you know the actual name.
For the benefit of everyone in that has contributed to this forum i will ask Alim when i next get the chance of what he thinks about sharing his family tree with the rest of the world (him being secret all this time could be to avoid some of the comments that have appeared in this forum). If he agrres then i will see if the www.northernmantis.co.uk can be updated to include this, if he disagrees then i guess Corja Shantung in the eyes of many is not ready at this point to answer questions in this forum. I will post a reply once i have spoken to him.
In the mean time keep training, keep researching, never stop training and understand Kung Fu .
What amazes me is how someone has to prove him or herself whatever the situation when there is very little or nothing to prove in the first place.
Please do not be on the defensive as we are not being rude it is just general interest . The Northern Mantis community is a very closed circle in the U.K. with not many qualified Shifus and yes they all do know each other as a couple have been here promoting their mantis for many years .
