I see that you’re learning Hung Ga just for the sake of learning Hung Ga. Once again, I learn Hung Ga to FIGHT.
That is probably true. I started out in gong-fu to learn to fight. I have done PLENTY of sparring. Eventually I got bored with that. I could list a dozen reasons why I train gong-fu. (actually since my move to China I’ve switched from Hung Gar to Baji ) Hung-gar is worth learning for it’s own sake. For pure fighting - BJJ is probably better. I am not even saying I feel it is superior for fighting but the learning curve is quicker. Thai Boxing is also almost pure fighting. It is primarily in the longer term that a traditional art rewards you.
Copying others may be the only way YOU learn, but that’s not the case for many others . . .
I said copying is the MAIN way we learn. We start by copying. It’s how we learned to speak. It’s how we learned to walk. Later we move on to creating. I also believe there is nothing new under the sun.Just new combinations of old stuff. From yin and yang to the “ten thousand things”. 000101110110101010101 . . . .
You need to get in the ring and SPAR, omarthefish.
I agree and I do . . . er . . did. Not here in China. I did a lot more sparring back in San Francisco.
Sevenstar,
Good post. good suggestions.
I find that for each sparring session it is helpfull to work on small specific goals. Instead of trying to get the whole thing down at once. eg:
today I am only going to concentrate on outflanking him. He attacks - I step IN diagonally.
today I am going to concentrates on combo x,y,z. Whatever he throws I am going to return this 3 hit combo.
today I am going to concentrate on bridging the gap. I am going to spar with that tall guy with the huge reach and try to get inside.
today I WILL NOT DROP MY LEFT when I shoot out my right.
etc.
HuangKaiVun,
It’s been a pleasure debating with you. I don’t often get to disagree with someone that strongly and still maintain a civil tone. I thought you were gonna drop to more name calling but you didn’t. I’m gonna try and keep directly to the topic from here out.
What do you know about fighting when you posted in the praying mantis section that the mantis hooks of a novice twarted your kung fu and you got your azz whooped. I know you talk and talk too much for your own good. Don’t forget to front up with the goods, like what you haven’t done eventhough you have issued a challenge to a cripple. I’ll elaborate on this point if need be.
Learning Hung gar to fight is like going for a p1ss when what you really want to do is a sh1t. Hung gar is not a fightin g style and a ground fighter would whoop you any day. I recollect you saying that you have not sparred against a BJJ. Let me tell you they can be formidable.
Omarthefish:
The fact that you got bored with sparring with Hungar is probably because you have learned all there is to know about hung gar. Your move to Baji is a good one. It is an excellent fighting style and you’ll do well by training hard in it.
Remembering that even the special forces in china today train in a mixture of northern kung fu. one of them is Baji.
Hung Gar is just about the most brutally effective fighting style I’ve come across in my 15 years of study.
You recollect incorectly.
I have sparred with both wrestlers and BJJ guys. The first time out I did indeed get whooped. But that was in a Judo class where we were only wrestling. It took a couple months to get used to it. Since then I have faced both and faired well. It just takes a tiny bit of cross training. You don’t even have to learn the grappling arts in their entirety. Just a few basics and things to look out for.
Of all the Chinese arts, Hung-gar is one of the best vs. grapplers. It has more stand-up grappling than hitting. Other styles that come to mind as being well suited to deal with grapplers would be taiji, bagua and southern mantis.
You said, "The fact that you got bored with sparring with Hungar is probably because you have learned all there is to know about hung gar. "
I never said I got bored sparring with Hung Gar. I just said I got bored with mostly sparring. There’s more to life to sparring and there are many things you won’t learn sparring. There are also mistakes you can ingrain during sparring. Sparring will teach you mostly to fight like a kickboxer. You will tend to avoid the parts of your art which make it distinctive. You will reduce an art as varied and multifaceted as Hung Gar to a collection of boxing style punches with the occasional grab and low kick added in for flavor.
Lastly, what special forces? Could you give me a source I could refer to. I know the bodyguards to the last emperor and also to Chiang Kai Shek were my Shishu but I have not been able to locate any justification to the claim that “special forces” in China train in a mixture of northern and Baji. The capital, Beijing is in the north so northern shaolin would make sense but from I’ve seen military personel are basically just trained in basic sanda techniques and an ad hoc mixture of chin na depending on what the trainer has the most experience with.
I have made the switch to Baji because I live in Northwest China and there is very little SOUTHERN style Gong-fu here in NORTHERN China.
I spent about 8 Years in Hung Gar and it was VERY difficult to make the decision to leave, especially without learning the coveted iron wire set. Maybe when I get back to the states I will have my chance.
Just heading out the door so I’ll make it quick and post later.
John Painter? I’ve got at least one of his videos. It’s o.k. I’m sorry to hear the Hung Gar to have seen was so half assed. I have no idea how this URL is supposed to support your claim that serious martial artists do northern gong fu. It’s a ridiculous statement. Chang Chuan is northern but IMHO hardly compares to something as nitty griity as Hung Gar, Wing Chun or Southern Mantis.
A more accurate statement would be that Northern Chinese study Northern styles of Gong fu. I actually do think Baji has a few things on Hung Gar but Hung Gar still rocks. I have also practiced Bagua for about 5 years. John Painters Bagua is practical but unimpressive compared to what I’ve seen.
I’ll give you more specifics later when I have time.
Practical should be good enough for you. In any case your statement is incorrect, John is American and not Chinese. He has a good experience from his CV. There are others who have equally as good a CV and they do Northern Kung fu. some chinese some not. Like I said, I don’t have that URL which shows the chinese special forces training northern kung fu. If you can find it in one of my older post do take a look.
Hung Gar doesn’t rock, it hits rock bottom when it comes to usefulness. I have vanquished many a hung gar player. There’s also a hung gar sifu is who is too chicken to front up to his own challenge agaisnt me.
Are you retarded or did you just get hit in the head too many times? Where did I say The White AMERICAN texas ranger Painter was Chinese? Then you go on about his CV? Like that has a something to do with his martial ability. He did mention stufying bagua for 10 years. Good for him. He has almost as much training as me.
This is officially my last contribution to the troll. Sorry to see this thread die.
“I have no idea how this URL is supposed to support your claim that serious martial artists do northern gong fu. It’s a ridiculous statement. A more accurate statement would be that Northern Chinese study Northern styles of Gong fu.”
You have no idea. period! Doesn’t John Painter prove my point. A) he is a serious martial artist b) he is not chinese.
Like I said earlier, serious martial artist study nothern kung fu then you go on about this nothern kung fu for northern chinese king of sh1t.
Basically you don’t even know what you yourself had written. If I’m a retard, you won’t even have an a$$ for a head. Hung Gar is a vanquished style and so is Wing Chun. so stff, slow and one dimensional.
hmmm i’ll show u some kung fu thats better than southern stuff.
Ego/kelvin chan/goki primate himself in action
displaying the hard earned skills ‘northern chicken legs kung fu’
u should see how lethal he is against all the primary kids at chifley college. Ego can really kick some butt. so if u want any martial arts performances in sydney. u know who to call.
Sometimes I used to like to drill ‘slow sparring’ .
Two people square off. ‘A’ throws a slow (not slow motion just kinda light and easy) punch.
‘B’ parries and counterattacks. ‘A’ counters . . back and forth.
It can be ‘a’ throws 3 hits and then ‘b’ attacks or whatever number you want. The goal is not to score but to find what attacks/parried flow comfortable from what positions.
If A’s attack is blocked/parried in a clumsy fasion, A should just leave the hand out ther untill B finds a better method. Slowly at first and gradually faster.
It’s a bit like learning to play tennis. Sometimes a begginer just wants to volleyto get a feel for the game. Nobodys really trying to score, just keep a good volley going. As the players get better they can gradually increase the speed, continuity and general intensity of the attacks.
We train that way at our kwoon, and I’ve found it to be very beneficial. It’s easier to see the correct usage of combos and blocks when done at a slower or even lighter pace. From my personal experience, I know how hard I can hit, and therefore if I go slower or lighter it definately makes it easier to speed up and apply.
I’m just starting to learn who are the personalities on this board.
And notice I really do qualify what I mean by ‘better’. If you just look at what your gonna be able to use in say a 3 to 6 month period . . . I’ll bet on the BJJ’ers every time. Thai boxers can kick @$$ in 3 months if they train hard. I’m not even saying Hung Gar is a ten year program or anything. It’s just more versitile and you’ve got a broader curriculum so naturally it’s gonna take a little longer to get up to speed.
I still don’t even want to bother with the whole biting thing. . . I almost said ‘CLAWING-biting thing’, but then I remembered TIGER-crane. Duh.
We kinda got off on the wrong foot, but hey, so what. We’ll jsut have to disagree on a few things. That’s what makes life interesting.
First things first, I’m not Kelvin chan and I don’t maintain a web page. You on the other hand don’t dare front up to your own challenge and face me.
It is so typical that you go on about the clawing thing. The only difference between karate and hung gar is the claws you have at the end. Panther fist, tiger claw, dragon claw (bigger version of tiger claw), snake’s head, crane beak - and that’s it. All the movements underpinning all of your animal forms are identical - except for the hand configuration.
You haven’t sparred against a BJJ let alone step foot in an octogan. your tiger claw and fancy uniform will do you no good. absolutely none at all.
Omarthefish:
What you’re saying is you need to stay out of trouble for 10 years if you do Hung Gar before you can defend yourself. Say you learn at the age of 20, you have to wait till you’re 30. How stupid is that. In that time you can learn BJJ and kick boxing, go hard core in the Octogan if you want and sit around wait another 9 years before a Hung Gar student who trained the same time as you can meet your challenge.
Hung Gar is such a stupid style. I mean you can accomplish your fighting skills in 3 months. Why do you even bother about Hung Gar - is it the fancy uniforms?
The sad thing is, you are kelvin chan. I’ve seen the proof. I’ve seen the one thread where you play all three roles, kelvin, goktimus, and ego, and you aren’t too good about differentiating between the three. For HKV to “front up to his own challenge” he would have to fly to australia. If you’d like to continue to deny it I’ll go find the link and put it in this thread so you can ignore it in here as well as the other threads that you’ve started to ignore.
Your ignorance shows through every time you post. Why people actually humor you is beyond me.
I did understand what you meant by “better”, omarthefish.
99.9999% of the time, I’d agree with you about Hung Ga being slower to learn than other styles for combat. That’s the way it is being taught nowadays.
Despite that, though, a lot of Hung Ga moves can readily and quickly be adapted to combat situations. Your mentioned “tiger” claw hand is and has been quickly adapted for street usage by military units, certain police forces, and various civilian groups. It’s not necessarily taught as “tiger palm”, but a claw to the face can hurt anybody.
Certainly the tools to hurt anybody are contained in any of the 5 major Hung Ga empty hand sets. Personally, my favorite is the Tiet Sin set because of its power training and basic hand postures.
I think it’s more a matter of how it’s taught and practiced as opposed to the art itself being slow to learn.
Kelvin, I’d love to fight you in what you call “Manhatten” :rolleyes:
If you’re really from New Jersey, then tell me what structures one can see on the left from the New Jersey Turnpike going south right after getting out of the Holland Tunnel.
And what’s the nickname for New Jersey, anyway?
If you answer these correctly, I’ll have more questions for you. After all, I have RELATIVES in New Jersey.
claws, palm strikes comination of the above yeah, yeah.
Can’t speak on Tit Sien Kuen, my Sifu typically teaches it only after 7 or 8 years. That’s recently. It used to be about a 10 year wait. I also want to be on record as having said quite specifically you DONT need to train for 10 years to use the stuff. I was jsut about due to learn it (Tit Sien) and then I hopped off to China.
My school was pretty flexible. No real set order for learning most stuff. The order you learned the core sets was set but your progress in that department could be interrupted at any time by all sorts of reasons. Weapon sets, learning a northern set, learning a two man set. Those sorts of things could happen just whenever Sifu felt it was appropriate and in no apparent set order of progression.
As for quickly adaptable stuff, I goto a local gym here in China to use the heavy bag to practice mostly hung gar and they all think I’m working on western style boxing. Closed fists instead of ‘beaks’ and ‘claws’. But regardless of how you train, it jsut takes a while to develope enough root to avoid being taken down by even a beggining wrestler. If you did thai boxing, you’d be just throwing a thousand round kicks a day and that one technique alone could carry you through a ton of fights. I train it myself just because it’s such a simple no brainer under pressure.
Tit Sien is rad but I’ll jsut have to wait. The basic internal stuff is there in sup yin anyways. I think it’s a bit ill advised to go on about Tit Sien Kuen to much in a forum like this. Some folks have made themselves really sick trying to learn it on their own. Without a proper guide that kind of internal training is more dangerous than something simple like zhan zhuang. The worst to come of poor taiji training is lousy useless gong-fu. Poor Tit Sien training could leave you with a lousy useless liver.
This is great. Eight years and you never learned the wire form? The problem with martial arts training is that there aren’t any straght answers. Does sparring equal fighting? Some say yes, some say no. IF you’re good at sparring, are u a good fighter? AGain, no answer. Sparring seems very limited to me. The gear just messes u up. Cant use certain hand strikes, cant see past helmet, less fear because you have the gear on…etc. Hung gar is a good system to learn to fight but it does take a while. Some people study for years and still cant fight. The way I see it, if I never become a good fighter, atleast the forms and what not kept me healthy. I mean, come on. Do any of us really need to become super saiyans? Where I live, I never see fights. Yeah, i might get into a scuffle eventually, but I dont expect to for a long time. I prefer light contact sparring without gear rather than just boxing with gear on. how long has it been since I posted? a long time. Oh ya, before I forget. Hung gar has a lot of grappling. Tons! A lot of it is a different kind if grappling than what I’ve typically seen. I’ve seen a bunch of people throwing each other over their shoulders, bending wrists, and elbows. Ripping skin is a form of grappling as well.
