http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19330-muscle-lab-bulk-up-with-the-science-of-bodybuilding.html
Thought this might be of interest to those who are into S&C.
Because the nuclei of muscle fibres are key to the production of new muscle protein, Gundersen thinks that after a bout of training, the potential to grow muscle sticks with you for life. So no matter how much time has passed since you were in the peak of muscular fitness, it should be easier to achieve the second time around.
Pretty much anyone that has ever done serious ST knows that getting it back is easier than getting it in the first place.
BUT, the older you get, WHAT you get back isn’t always what you had.
This here is misleading:
What is the best way to pump iron?
Standard advice for gym bunnies is to lift as much weight as you can in a training session. But Stuart Phillips and his team at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, reckon this might not be the best way to build muscle. Instead, they suggest that slow and steady wins the race.
In Phillips’s study, men in their early 20s lifted weights with their legs over various periods at 30 and 90 per cent of the maximum weight they could lift. Phillips analysed biopsies from the leg muscles before and after each training session.
He found that the production of new muscle proteins was greatest when the men were lifting the relatively light weights – at 30 per cent of their maximum – until they were fatigued, and couldn’t lift any more.
The idea that you should lift progressively heavier weights to bulk up is “completely false”, says Phillips. Instead, the best way to build muscle is to lift more manageable weights until you tire out, he says.
Unless that study was done with a consistent control across the board on both groups, there is not much that can be take from it.
Other studies have CONSITENTLY shown that heavy weights cause the most increase in muscle mass, whether they are applied to a volume approach OR a “HIT” approach.
The main point in the study above was the fatigue issue, basically the lower weight group pushed their legs more then than the higher weight one, IF the higher weight one had also pushed to fatigue they would have gotten better results.
Almost every ST protocol works, if done correctly and for at least 6 weeks and for no more than 12 ( body begins to adapt).
all you have to do is look at people who “bodybuild” ie; higher reps lighter weights,just a generaliztion no offense to anyone, then at the powerlifters who do heavy weight for much fewer reps. the powerlifters are always much denser and hold their muscle much longer,as it is not volumization. the biopsy was taken from the leg muscle and not from different parts of the body. the legs are known to respond to higher reps as we stand and walk on the all day long so they are used to the endurance and you really have to blast them tho get them to grow. a whole body test should have been done. kinda like the study saying you should rest 30 sec. between sets. this was made up so as to run more pwople through the gym=more money for the gyms. watch serious powerlifters train and see how long they take between sets.
[QUOTE=teetsao;1033347] kinda like the study saying you should rest 30 sec. between sets. this was made up so as to run more pwople through the gym=more money for the gyms. watch serious powerlifters train and see how long they take between sets.[/QUOTE]
No quite correct…its intended to increase heart rate, reduce recovery time, and tear down the muscles. Power lifters take longer breaks because that’s what they do in competitions…they have short periods of exertion with longer recovery times. Let me know which gym is making more money off this 30 second rest between sets.
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1033357]No quite correct…its intended to increase heart rate, reduce recovery time, and tear down the muscles. Power lifters take longer breaks because that’s what they do in competitions…they have short periods of exertion with longer recovery times. Let me know which gym is making more money off this 30 second rest between sets.[/QUOTE]
I agree, the study that showed that the 30 sec rest was just as good was comparing it to a 60 sec and NOT the types of rests needed when working in a power lifting protocol.
Though you certainly CAN do it that way too.
thing that was not mentioned: Most workout routines start out with the higher rep. lower weight regiement to begin with. It’s later that more weight is usually added. It’s all about foundation building.
I think there is a fundamental problem to the study, maybe. If he is looking at training for muscle bulk, i.e. body building, then the advice may not carry over to strength training. I still thought the muscle fibre nuclei results were interesting, evidence to back up the “knowledge”.
I am finishing my exercise science degree soon the main thing I have learned for gains is that muscle rebuilds after being broken down. There is a point you can break it down to much but time under tension is the big factor for muscle to be broken down to rebuild back up further. So basically more time under under tension the more break down the more adaption after wards. Also a power lifter takes a longer break because they are aiming to lift heavy and need time to get a complete recovery or as close to complete recovery as possible to lift the heavy weight again. Lifting weight is not just lifting weight it`s a specific thing for what you want to achieve and different people may also be affected greater or less from one type of training then a other person. Ps does anyone have a link to the actual study not the article about it? (maybe i missed the link)
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1033357]No quite correct…its intended to increase heart rate, reduce recovery time, and tear down the muscles. Power lifters take longer breaks because that’s what they do in competitions…they have short periods of exertion with longer recovery times. Let me know which gym is making more money off this 30 second rest between sets.[/QUOTE]
There are MANY gyms across the nation which don’t even have squat racks or deadlift platforms and don’t allow O-lifts or d-lifts. They are marketing to people they know will join for a year and then not show up after a month or two. Their marketing is also that you have to only put in a bit of effort to get GREAT results. Watch the gym trainers. What do they have their clients do? A bunch of isolation exercise on machines so they can feel good but not have to put in hard effort like whole body lifts (squats, deadlifts)
kevin73,you are right on. that is exactly how it is. i am glad i have a friend who owns his own private gym for powerlifters and strongman competitors. where real men work out.
Lets not paint everything the same way guys.
Fact is, outside of powerlifitng there is no need for the average person to do anything even lose to it, same goes for olympic lifts.
And while I am not a fan of isolation moves, they serve a purpose.
For most people, doing ST is for health reasons and ANY exercise that makes them stronger is better than nothing and if that means easy isolation over serious compounds then U say good for them.
Fact is, most trainers have no ****ing clue what they are doing and just follow whatever is the latest fad and hope for the best.
I think it is better to have a trainer that doesn’t really know anythign about ST putting people through leg externsion, leg curls, and such, then putting them doing squats and NOT knowing how to incorporate squats into a workout.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1033251]This here is misleading:
Unless that study was done with a consistent control across the board on both groups, there is not much that can be take from it.
Other studies have CONSITENTLY shown that heavy weights cause the most increase in muscle mass, whether they are applied to a volume approach OR a “HIT” approach.
The main point in the study above was the fatigue issue, basically the lower weight group pushed their legs more then than the higher weight one, IF the higher weight one had also pushed to fatigue they would have gotten better results.
Almost every ST protocol works, if done correctly and for at least 6 weeks and for no more than 12 ( body begins to adapt).[/QUOTE]
Absolutely.
Lifting lighter weights “until tired” will give you crazy endurance and probably a decent pump, but not much muscle growth, if any.
There is a reason competitive BBers do not lift 30% of the 1RMs.
[QUOTE=Kevin73;1034158]There are MANY gyms across the nation which don’t even have squat racks or deadlift platforms and don’t allow O-lifts or d-lifts. [/quote]
Worthless gyms!!!
They are marketing to people they know will join for a year and then not show up after a month or two. Their marketing is also that you have to only put in a bit of effort to get GREAT results. Watch the gym trainers. What do they have their clients do? A bunch of isolation exercise on machines so they can feel good but not have to put in hard effort like whole body lifts (squats, deadlifts)
Ha, personal trainers have their clients do things like dumbell curls while standing on a Bosu Ball and other worthless BS because personal training is a sales occupation, and if your client thinks they are getting some super cool workout they will keep paying you money.
No one, especially women, wants to pay a personal trainer to lift weights or do cardio.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1034168]
Fact is, most trainers have no ****ing clue what they are doing and just follow whatever is the latest fad and hope for the best.[/QUOTE]
This.
It’s one of the 3 reasons I left the fitness industry. The other two were:
Personal training is not a field of study where one performs analysis and gets results. It is sales*. The trainers who get the most clients (and money) are the charismatic ones who BS their clients about standing on Bosu Balls while holding a 2 pound weight at arms length in order to keep them coming back. I’m far too cynical to be a good salesman 
99% of clients are not serious about their goals, and just want to know how many crunches they need to do to lose their belly fat. And after you explain to them why crunches won’t help with that, they ask “so is 200 per day enough?” Or “oh, I don’t want to lift weights because I don’t want to get big.” lol! Listen lady, I’ve been trying to get big for 10 years. It’s not as easy as you think it is
*another revealing moment in my life was when I realized that stockbrokers are also just salesmen, they just sell stocks instead of cars or personal training sessions.
- 99% of clients are not serious about their goals, and just want to know how many crunches they need to do to lose their belly fat. And after you explain to them why crunches won’t help with that, they ask “so is 200 per day enough?” Or “oh, I don’t want to lift weights because I don’t want to get big.” lol! Listen lady, I’ve been trying to get big for 10 years. It’s not as easy as you think it is
yep… most people don’t understand the dedication and pain you have to go through to get what you want. When you try and explain that it’s not an exact number of things, you can’t put a definitive on it, they can’t understand. haha I’ve tried explain the exact same thing your talking about (crunches/situps) to people that it doesn’t make you bells flat… they don’t understand that actually it will probably make it look bigger, and that diet is one of the major deciding factors in weight loss.
[QUOTE=viper;1034020]I am finishing my exercise science degree soon the main thing I have learned for gains is that muscle rebuilds after being broken down. There is a point you can break it down to much but time under tension is the big factor for muscle to be broken down to rebuild back up further. So basically more time under under tension the more break down the more adaption after wards. Also a power lifter takes a longer break because they are aiming to lift heavy and need time to get a complete recovery or as close to complete recovery as possible to lift the heavy weight again. Lifting weight is not just lifting weight it`s a specific thing for what you want to achieve and different people may also be affected greater or less from one type of training then a other person. Ps does anyone have a link to the actual study not the article about it? (maybe i missed the link)[/QUOTE]
Good points viper, time under tension for muscle growth is 30-70 seconds. The longer rest for heavy lifting is to allow the nervous system to recover more than the muscles.
Scotty you are 100% correct amazes me the amount of people guys mainly that assume big muscles equals big strength not realizing the cns is a massive contributor to strength and speed.
[QUOTE=viper;1036273]Scotty you are 100% correct amazes me the amount of people guys mainly that assume big muscles equals big strength not realizing the cns is a massive contributor to strength and speed.[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen guys who look like total wimps bench 315# easy. In over 30 yrs of lifting I’ve never benched 315#, now I’ve never cared to and have never worked towards it, but still…
[QUOTE=viper;1036273]Scotty you are 100% correct amazes me the amount of people guys mainly that assume big muscles equals big strength not realizing the cns is a massive contributor to strength and speed.[/QUOTE]
Careful, TMA guys are going to misinterpret this as “yeah we don’t have to lift weights because big muscles don’t mean you’re strong. I’m too deadly for the street! Qiblasts!!!”
And let’s not forget that usually guys with big muscles are stronger. The average big guy is pretty strong. The average skinny guy is not usually secretly a powerlifter.
All else being equal a bigger muscle has more potential than a smaller muscle. This is why the absolute strongest people on the planet are heavyweights, although the smaller powerlifters are often stronger proportional to their bodyweight. The fact remains there are no 150 pound guys squatting 1,000 pounds.
Plus, bodybuilders tend to have more muscular endurance than PLers due to the nature of their training. Sure, a 150 pound powerlifter guy might bench 315 (which is awesome), but he won’t be able to crank out as many reps as a 220 pound bodybuilder, regardless of how much weight is used.
I’m a pretty skinny guy with a fast metabolism. I remember the first time I started training like a powerlifter and I was finally able to bench 225. I was so excited!!! I weighed like 160 or something and I had been doing 5 reps or less for months to get to that point, and I could barely bench 135 x 10 anymore. My strength curve was so jacked and I had no endurance from all the low rep/long rest period/heavy weight powerlifting stuff.
To be honest I didn’t really care, though. I was like 20 years old and was super pumped to be able to bench two plates on each side