Originally posted by monkeyboxing no matter how much you want to believe it, there is no way an unarmed fighter can defeat five men with guns that are trying to shoot you and are not mentally impaired (james bond movies nonwithstanding). martial arts can make you better at defending yourself, but they cannot make you invincible. that is one thing that i think many of you need to realize.
Hi KKM.
YOU need to realize: I AM INVINCIBLE!
Also perhaps you need to realize that according to the Sun (which admittedly is as reliable a news purveyor as my left teste) an unarmed fighter defeated five men, at least one of whom was holding a gun and trying to shoot him. There are many more variables than those that you’ve mentioned, and I would hope the important points of this story are:
Not everybody is useful with a gun (esp outside the US with your readily available gun schools!);
Some people wanna use them as a threat and don’t really have the balls to use them;
Some people who practise martial arts, like some people who don’t, will not just give up and let their families get ****ed over even if push comes to shove… which whether I’m (doh! ) invincible or not, is the more serious aspect of why I train.
Originally posted by Liokault The Atom bomb would like to disagree with you. He has his friend Hiroshima to back him up.
Ain’t seen many of those used in a streetfight… :rolleyes:
Originally posted by rogue Can anybody answer if guns are so hard to take away from someone why gun retention is taught? Anybody?
Dunno, but I bet it’s sumpin to do with Freud…?
Is it when you never move away from the stage of stickin guns up your ***?
As for guns, they aren’t a sure thing by any means. A few years ago I read a study on gun fights in american cities and there were some intersting facts. The first was that 80% of all gun battles occur within 8ft. The second was that 1 in 12 shots hit. At 5 ft, 1 in 8 shots hit.
Much like people assuming martial arts is the ultimate answer in a fight, some people mistakenly feel guns are the ultimate answer as well and this is simply not true.
People that are intimately familiar with their guns can still be effective at a chaotic, close-range scuffle. Plus, never underestimate the shock of muzzle blast near you. Even if you miss, my .40 will scare the **** outta ya long enuff for me to make sure I get ya the second time. Plus, I use mine gun like a reverse punch. Its in the rear. I can hold you off with my front hand long enuff to be sure I get you and I only need to hit you once.
Originally posted by Losttrak Plus, I use mine gun like a reverse punch. Its in the rear. I can hold you off with my front hand long enuff to be sure I get you and I only need to hit you once.
You mean you have done this?
Or that you hope to be able to remember to do this in the event of someone trying to kill you, dispite all the adrenalin and chaos?
It’s called the gun retention stance, no big training or fine-motor skills needed…
Any person trained in room-clearing operations use it so the gun CAN’T be taken away. When you fire, you use the old WW2 point shooting methods made popular by the OSS, British Commandos, etc.
Not saying that Losttrak is a super Navy SEAL or anything, but civilians are now being trained to use it because of the above-mentioned points, and it works.
Check out some of Kelly McCann’s material. He teaches it the way where you do use your non-gun hand to strike, clear, etc., only to use the gun when you really need to.
In case there are some other wise guys out there, let me mention that you don’t HAVE to use point shooting in this stance. You CAN punch the gun out, get a good grip (two-dogs humping , get a good front-sight picture on the target, and fire. I just wanted to clarify that in case there were other combat shooters out there
This one time, I heard about this girl in band camp, she stuck her flute up her ehem… well anyway, some walked in on her, and she beat him to death with it…
How many times have we talked/heard about rediculous senarios that someone un/trained walked away, either minimally hurt or unscaved… like dudes whos chutes don’t open and they sprain an ankle falling from a few thousand feet. Or an unarmed person with three guns in there face beating the crap out of those dudes. Whatever, anything is pretty much possible, but to try to train for crap like that is rediculous. It should come from instinct and your regular training (ie looking for openings, etc)… I’m just saying there are more rediculous stories out there than you can shake your twig too… Just trying to point out how rediculous some things can sound.
Oh, and I was talking about more of the earlier posts, not the way yall drifted… sorry, should have said that before. That shooting stuff is pretty cool… I should get back into that stuff.
Or that you hope to be able to remember to do this in the event of someone trying to kill you, dispite all the adrenalin and chaos?
I haven’t utilized that technique in combat yet… however this entire forum exists due to the “pretense” that regular training can have a dramatic effect on combat situations and reactions. I daresay that keeping my gun side to the rear, so I can squeeze the trigger without being overly harried, is far easier in execution than searching for openings with hand or foot.
no prob NP - you were into the gun thing before? That’s cool.
I really really recommend Kelly McCann’s videos on the subject if you want to learn some good handgun combatives. They go over a lot, and you can pick and choose which moves to practice. Any of his stuff is solid.
One that I learned and works well for me in practice is to keep both hands on the gun, biceps and elbows tight to my sides and the pistol at about lower chest height. It’s a ***** on the wrists but if the guy wants the gun he has to almost walk into it. You can also use kicks to his legs if you need to slow him down.
One thing that my sensei pointed out is if you keep your gunside too far to the rear the opponent stands a good chance of turning you and/or getting to your back. Other bad things are the opponent can press the gun into your body with you shooting yourself. His opinion is if the opponent is that close you should have started shooting already, or never pulled the gun in the first place. rule of thumb, keep the gun between you and the opponent.
) invincible or not, is the more serious aspect of why I train.
, get a good front-sight picture on the target, and fire. I just wanted to clarify that in case there were other combat shooters out there