Mantis Questions

[ursa_major]

Re: Re: Honestly…

Originally posted by diego
[B] … Now in my style (which was taught to my teacher in the 70s) we use the mantis stance but only from the side and not front facing like demo’d in leung tings book where the sifu demo’s the front heel adduction stance or mantis stance in npm…What I hope to find out is how wide ranging is this stance…haven’t seen it in wing chun only in npm, my style and recently in leung tings drunkard book!..and possibly other styles which i can’t recollect right now.

…If you have the time, would you please tell me about npm’s hooking hand grabbing technique and how it differs from say hunggars tiger grabbing technique?.
thanks [/B]

Hello diego,

The ‘7 star’ stance shows up in various styles beyond PM. For instance I bump into it from time to time in several of the Tai Chi forms that I practice. Although the manner with which it is employed may differ substantially between various systems, I believe that as a stance it can be considered wide spread in CMA. The overwhelming majority of 7 Star that I practice employs this particular stance on a front/back axis and it is not so much a ‘stance’ as it is a snapshot on an activity. For instance a hook of the opponent’s leg, a low kick, a transitionary position in a stepping pattern – it is not meant as a static fighting position.

About NPM hooking vs HG’s claw, the most notable difference would be the non-use of the thumb by NPM. Once contact is made both systems place similar emphasis on the the fore-arms, placement of elbows and making use of center of gravity.

I find the NPM method requires greater sensitivity and places greater emphasis on intercept while the HG method employs more body strength – even when using the lighter side of HG, like Crane.

regards,
UM.

[diego]

Re: Re: Re: Honestly…

Originally posted by ursa major
[B]

Hello diego,

The ‘7 star’ stance shows up in various styles beyond PM. For instance I bump into it from time to time in several of the Tai Chi forms that I practice. Although the manner with which it is employed may differ substantially between various systems, I believe that as a stance it can be considered wide spread in CMA. The overwhelming majority of 7 Star that I practice employs this particular stance on a front/back axis and it is not so much a ‘stance’ as it is a snapshot on an activity. For instance a hook of the opponent’s leg, a low kick, a transitionary position in a stepping pattern – it is not meant as a static fighting position.

[/B]

Hello, we have three variations of side-pivots:

say and opponnent punches with a left to your chest from a left stance

you step with your right foot to the right and deflect the punch with your left…quickly pivot on your right turing towards your opponnent…trap his left punch with your left hand and follow up with a right hand strike to the point of your choice.

We can be in either a left cat stance (all the weight is on the rear right leg)

we can be in a mantis stance

or we have another variation which is really a crane stance (which is usually stepped into by shuffling ones stance) stepped into from a pivot where you lift the rear right heel from a cat stance and place all your weight on the front left leg (i will try to find a picture) this is good for quikfighting according to my understanding of the application.
I find the cat works good for inclose fighting applications and the techniques from that platform manifest rather tight in execution, wheras i find the mantis works inbetween the cat and the crane stance pivot.

now for instance say from the cat we will use a tiger claw to grip the arm with a left grab and slam a tiger claw into the left side of his face with our right…now from there we can step and pivot into a right mantis stance (weight on left leg and lift right toe)cutting the inside of his left arm with a right garn sao in wing chun or downward wiping defense and slip a left uppercut to his chin…then followup with some hopgar longfist stance ramming technique…so that’s an example of the differance between the cat and the mantis stance from side to side pivot technique.

the crane pivot is the same footwork as the cat stance pivot but instead of letting the weight sit on the back it shifts to the front leg to create total torque in your followup strike…you step to the right with your right and deflect with your left then pivot on the ball of your right foot and place all the weight onto your left toe-ball of foot and slam a uppercut-short to his left ribs and followup.

So, i see the differance between cat and mantis being due to the situation of the fight, like how quik you have to counter and the size of your opponnent…my teacher didn’t know the fine details he just showed me the applications and form!..so what do you think… would you use this pivoting action with the frame of the mantis stance in a fight?..do you even do side to side western boxerlike pivots in mantis, like wing chun is famous for?.

I’m going to ask you about your springloaded steps, in your last post, in my next post
cheers

[ursa_major]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Honestly…

Originally posted by diego
[B] … So, i see the differance between cat and mantis being due to the situation of the fight, like how quik you have to counter and the size of your opponnent…my teacher didn’t know the fine details he just showed me the applications and form!..so what do you think… would you use this pivoting action with the frame of the mantis stance in a fight?..do you even do side to side western boxerlike pivots in mantis, like wing chun is famous for?.

I’m going to ask you about your springloaded steps, in your last post, in my next post
cheers [/B]

Well, assuming we are talking about the same thing, I see no reason not to use 7 Star on a side pivot but again how I might employ it would probably be different from your description. I tend to use 7 Star side to side as part of open-the-door method for the lower gate while the upper gate re-directs with palms, etc. I find the lower gate shift in balance works well in fact the dragging of the heel doubles up as a possible trip for the opponent as they pass you during their rush.

This discussion would be alot easier with pictures eh ? Fact is you could be talking apples and I oranges and we could both agree on bananas hahahaha…

UM.

[devout]

Diego,

In perusing your posts -and they are copious- I am reminded of William Butler Yeats.
“…What rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born.”
What ever you are putting together with the myriad of questions that you post both near and far, must be fantastic in size, and at the very least daunting in shape. Quite like a burlesque pearl even…
You are, at the very least, self possessed enough to ask a salvo of questions, and some fine minds have taken time to work through your enthusiasm.

keep hacking away…

[diego]

Honestly what am i sposed to say to that…thanks or be frightened i have a stalker:)