Making your WC deadly

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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1

What are some techinques that one can practice to make his WC more deadly against lets say an armed attacker when you have no weapon,can not run,can not talk your way out of a fight and know that your attacker plans on stabbing you to death.

Are there any deadly techniques you can practiced to be prepared for this one and hundred chance you have to fight for your life? Also what conditioning should one do to make their WC more lethal?

For instance Wing Chun is like a broad sword. Knowing the forms and the basics is the Sword by itself. But having an art(Sword) with a unsharpen blade is like fighting with a knife or sword that doesn’t cut. You can still hurt and maybe kill with a dull sword but it would be harder against someone else who has a sharpen blade. Wing Chun is a gun. A gun can can injure and kill with out bullets, but with bullets its much easier. Your gun w/o bullets would be useless against a gunmen with bullets.

So the basics and forms are the gun and sword.

But certain conditioning would give you the bullets or sharpen your blade?

Please share what you think the bullets are in WC?

2

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;920701]What are some techinques that one can practice to make his WC more deadly against lets say an armed attacker when you have no weapon,can not run,can not talk your way out of a fight and know that your attacker plans on stabbing you to death.
[/QUOTE]

deadly WC you mean deadly toilet? :slight_smile:

1, with your noisy “if” specuating mind you are attracting garbage.

2, with your noisy “if” specuating mind you trap yourself.

3, with your noisy “if” specuating mind you set yourself up to all of the above.

what you think like above do the most damage to yourself.

Why dont you just quiet that “monkey” mind and attract not the illusion and just live in peace? your choice of couse.

Until you learn how to quiet your mind. Your mind is your worse enermy. You need to learn NOT Making your WC deadly. but living in peace.

see contradic to your post in other thread.

Yes, there is advance WCK principle:

WCK advance principle said,

Yau Yeng Da Yeng, Mo Yeng Da Yieng, Mo Yieng Poh Chung.

there is the shape target the shape, there is no shape target the shadow/dynamic, there is no shadow/dynamic broke your own reference or center.

Broken your own reference or think out of box call for the ability to Do Using Silence to lead action.

Silence means one has to quiet one’s mind.

See, advance WCK principle saying not the center line, pressure forward… those stuffs.

Advance WCK principle said Come accept, goes let it return, let go and move forward, using silence to lead action.

and

Advance WCK principle said there is the shape target the shape, there is no shape target the shadow/dynamic, there is no shadow/dynamic broke your own reference.

IT is about let Go let GOD, or let it flow in silence. Peace silence. instead of those monkey mind jumping around. with those monkey mind, the kung fu cant be too deep.

Think about it. You dont need deadly stuffs but peacefull thought to attract good things. That is Poh Chung. Think out of box. Learn the advance principle and choose not to be the frog trap itself within the well and thinking the sky is as big as the well opening or the monkey jumping around thinking all the world is going to get him.

Relax! All is well. I dont make my WC deadly but I make my toilet warm and cozy and peacefull. :smiley:

3

Thank you Senior,

That makes lots of sense in this age.

This is what I am taught too, but implementing takes some inner cultivation, which I am still WIP. Heh heh…

4

The overall training makes WCK as deadly as it can be.

Bong-lap forearm conditioning helps make hard gan & dip saus etc. then the wall bag to make your short range strikes more powerful/ deadly. Not to mention Dummy work… WCK is a fully rounded system overall just give it time to develop for you and you will see.

5

Are there any deadly techniques you can practiced

I used to practise these, but then I ran out of training partners. Too many funerals, too.

If you want to prepare yourself to deal with violent crime, read “Strong on Defense” by Sanford Strong. It will prepare you far better than all the WC training will.

6

Get a gun.

Else, train harder, spar more people.

7

Miss the point

The first guy much of what he wrote i didn’t understand. But you are pretty clear and concise. Yes I agree certain parts of WC does develop you. But there are also other parts which may not be taught or shared with others. For instance Yuen Kay San was very skilled with his hands. He also was very skilled with Iron Sand Palm. Austin Goh is known for both his skills at chi sau and being able to break six bricks with his palm.

Bruce lee was known for being able to do push ups on his fingers. If you can do many many push ups on your fingers…eventually your fingers will be able to push through someone. Yuen Kay San also was skilled with piercing his hand through a sand bag and grabbing a pebble inside.

not many people can puncture a sand bag today with their fingers?

But these are some of the points or star developments i am alluding too!

[QUOTE=mjw;920728]The overall training makes WCK as deadly as it can be.

Bong-lap forearm conditioning helps make hard gan & dip saus etc. then the wall bag to make your short range strikes more powerful/ deadly. Not to mention Dummy work… WCK is a fully rounded system overall just give it time to develop for you and you will see.[/QUOTE]

8

Yosh- just to be clear you want to learn certain WC techniques that are deadly or learn to defend against a gun, knife, bat ect..???

as far as deadly like “dim mak” style things i have no idea like joint locks pressure points?

as for the latter, if you want to learn to defend against a knife, what we do is get some washable markers and white t shirts, a dot is a stab wound, slash is well a cut obviously, grab a couple markers and go at it

for a club like a bat we use a whiffle ball bat, it stings but not too bad

9

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;920762]The first guy much of what he wrote i didn’t understand. But you are pretty clear and concise. Yes I agree certain parts of WC does develop you. But there are also other parts which may not be taught or shared with others. For instance Yuen Kay San was very skilled with his hands. He also was very skilled with Iron Sand Palm. Austin Goh is known for both his skills at chi sau and being able to break six bricks with his palm.

Bruce lee was known for being able to do push ups on his fingers. If you can do many many push ups on your fingers…eventually your fingers will be able to push through someone. Yuen Kay San also was skilled with piercing his hand through a sand bag and grabbing a pebble inside.

not many people can puncture a sand bag today with their fingers?

But these are some of the points or star developments i am alluding too![/QUOTE]

I would take certain feats with a grain of salt.
Some may be exagerated and others may require far more “forging” than you need/willing to do.

10

Techniques

Yes I agree one should work on defense against attackers. This great, But Also what about making your techniques more deadly. Now of course you to do jointlocks,pressure point striking and arm breaks.

But what about developing deadly kungs.

Like with tiger they train their hands to rip and tear flesh namely the throat.

Eagle calw trains their hands to crush your throat.

Crane trains their bils.

Karate trains their hands to break bricks

An of course Northen Shaolin trains Iron palm techniques that render similiar results as Karate.

So wouldn’t your WC be more complete by adding in the ability of certain Kungs?

For instance:
Iron Palm!
Rock Crushing Fingers(Body Piercing Fingers)!

I am not sold on Dim mak. I could be wrong I think Dim Mak is just a myth. I dont believe in the mystical mumbo jumbo…last time I check Dim mak was a japanese word?

[QUOTE=Katsu Jin Ken;920908]Yosh- just to be clear you want to learn certain WC techniques that are deadly or learn to defend against a gun, knife, bat ect..???

as far as deadly like “dim mak” style things i have no idea like joint locks pressure points?

as for the latter, if you want to learn to defend against a knife, what we do is get some washable markers and white t shirts, a dot is a stab wound, slash is well a cut obviously, grab a couple markers and go at it

for a club like a bat we use a whiffle ball bat, it stings but not too bad[/QUOTE]

11

“Deadly” is fantasy stuff.

Concern yourself with developing solid fundamental skills.

12

Foundation

After you have worked decades on developing a strong foundation and strong basics? Would it be safe to say its okay to start developing or conditioning yourself for more lethal techniques. What I am saying is there are conditioning techniques use to make your Art more lethal. Like iron palm…should this stuff be ignored. or should it be taught?

A tiger with out claws and teeth is defensless against another tiger who has claws and teeth.

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;920919]“Deadly” is fantasy stuff.

Concern yourself with developing solid fundamental skills.[/QUOTE]

13

The problem with deadly techniques is how do you know they work and how do you train them.

If someone says strike A against body part B will kill someone how do you know it will work? Can’t go around killing your training partners and most places frown on killing strangers.

But, you can train good fundamentals, things that work because you know they work. A punch to the face hurts, because you have felt it and have done it to others. An armbar works because you have felt someone take you arm right to the edge of breaking and you have done it to others. A choke works because in rolling you have probably choked someone until they saw stars or passed out and have had the same done to you.

This goes for a lot of your basic techniques. They work, you know they work and there is a high percentage you can pull them off.

Worry about learning deadly techniques which usually are low percentage, dangerous or impossible to train and questionable from a legal standpoint is time that could be spent working on something that you know works.

Just my 2 cents.

14

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;920917]I am not sold on Dim mak. I could be wrong I think Dim Mak is just a myth. I dont believe in the mystical mumbo jumbo…last time I check Dim mak was a japanese word?[/QUOTE]

Dim Mak is Cantonese
The Mandarin is Dien Xue.
Japanese styles have something similar…I think the word is Atemi…I could be wrong…

Regardless, it’s nothing magical or mythical.

The body works in certain ways, and there are many techniques that are designed to disrupt the body’s functions.

Snake would be a nearly useless style if pressure point strikes did not work.

15

[QUOTE=m1k3;920953]The problem with deadly techniques is how do you know they work and how do you train them.

If someone says strike A against body part B will kill someone how do you know it will work? Can’t go around killing your training partners and most places frown on killing strangers.

But, you can train good fundamentals, things that work because you know they work. A punch to the face hurts, because you have felt it and have done it to others. An armbar works because you have felt someone take you arm right to the edge of breaking and you have done it to others. A choke works because in rolling you have probably choked someone until they saw stars or passed out and have had the same done to you.

This goes for a lot of your basic techniques. They work, you know they work and there is a high percentage you can pull them off.

Worry about learning deadly techniques which usually are low percentage, dangerous or impossible to train and questionable from a legal standpoint is time that could be spent working on something that you know works.

Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]

“Dim Mak” isn’t all about killing strikes and deadly stuff.
It’s about using pressure points to decrease your opponent’s ability to react effectively. Many of the techniques can be done in controlled sparring and used safely while still having their intended effect. Yes they can cause serious health issues, but even in a real fight I would hesitate to use any of the strikes that are said to be “deadly”. I’ve never tried them, so I don’t know for sure if they work. But I’ve read enough literature on the subject, and been taught by people that I respect, so I’m not about to test it on people I care about.

16

The first guy much of what he wrote i didn’t understand. -------

That shows your boundary.

But you are pretty clear and concise. ------

By evident, what you think WCK is might not be what it is.

Yes I agree certain parts of WC does develop you. -----

WC does not develop you. WC lead you to be able to apply yourself fully and effectively. WC is just a tool.

But there are also other parts which may not be taught or shared with others. For instance Yuen Kay San was very skilled with his hands. He also was very skilled with Iron Sand Palm. Austin Goh is known for both his skills at chi sau and being able to break six bricks with his palm. ------

You can have weapon such as as deadly as bazoka in your hand and end up dead because you dont know what is reality, how to think, what to attract.

Thus, get your mind straight before thinking.

Finally, all this Making your WC deadly thought are just sick and negative. Similar to a person if he keep thinking of stealling others stuffs, he will end up thinking every one is trying to steal his stuffs.

Those who got into depression is keep thinking depression thoughts.

Going this path is wasting life and misleading which create big problem for oneself. because this is the way how one trap one into a self created tunel vision.

As the ADVANCE WINGCHUN PRINCIPLE said " Mo Yieng Poh Choong" or No shadow/dynamic broke(let go) your center ( reference, mind set, tunnel vision) Until able to do that one is just a robot program to do a certain task call Tan Sau.. Bong…etc set up to attack center line if there is any (and it got confuse if there is none). How can those type of Dummy works well?

17

[QUOTE=Chazmek;920966]“Dim Mak” isn’t all about killing strikes and deadly stuff.
It’s about using pressure points to decrease your opponent’s ability to react effectively. Many of the techniques can be done in controlled sparring and used safely while still having their intended effect. Yes they can cause serious health issues, but even in a real fight I would hesitate to use any of the strikes that are said to be “deadly”. I’ve never tried them, so I don’t know for sure if they work. But I’ve read enough literature on the subject, and been taught by people that I respect, so I’m not about to test it on people I care about.[/QUOTE]

Dim mak is fantasy.

18

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;920973]Dim mak is fantasy.[/QUOTE]

That’s a common opinion, which is fine.
With a logical mind, I can no longer hold that opinion due to personal experience.
Among those experiences: I’ve been knocked out by someone simply holding my wrist firmly and poking my arm in a certain place. I didn’t understand it at all at the time, and I’m still not very clear on the HOW of it, but I can no longer deny that there is definitely some truth mixed in with the fantasy.

19

[QUOTE=Chazmek;920994]That’s a common opinion, which is fine.
With a logical mind, I can no longer hold that opinion due to personal experience.
Among those experiences: I’ve been knocked out by someone simply holding my wrist firmly and poking my arm in a certain place. I didn’t understand it at all at the time, and I’m still not very clear on the HOW of it, but I can no longer deny that there is definitely some truth mixed in with the fantasy.[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlF937SmcUE

People trick themselves all the time. Those people would swear that their teacher’s chi was propelling them across the room. It’s called suggestion.

20

[QUOTE=Chazmek;920994]That’s a common opinion, which is fine.
With a logical mind, I can no longer hold that opinion due to personal experience.
Among those experiences: I’ve been knocked out by someone simply holding my wrist firmly and poking my arm in a certain place. I didn’t understand it at all at the time, and I’m still not very clear on the HOW of it, but I can no longer deny that there is definitely some truth mixed in with the fantasy.[/QUOTE]

Its called hypnosis. You believed (even if it was just at the subconscious level) that it would work, so it did. The people who do this are very good at setting up a receptive state in the subject (you). It is not a criticism of you, you were put into a position were an outcome was presented to you in such a way as to induce a state of belief in you. It is a common technique for mentalists, hypnotists and true believers.

When this people attempt to do this to people who are skeptics and don’t have time to prepare the subject the result is failure, although they have lots of excuses. There is a video in one of the threads of a hypnotist posing as a sifu doing no punch knockout and the random person from the class dropping in pain.