So besides going against “some people’s” perceived Nettiquette is posting a pm an infractionable offfense here on KF?
Is it stated anywhere in the FAQ?
Is posting someone’s own words and claims an insult?
I know I am rough around the edges when it comes to being rude but if I claimed to be a Grandmaster of Hung gar to someone in a pm, I am pretty sure they will call me to task and quite possibly make it public.
Quite honeslty when I troll I expect to get infractions here and there but the moderation is really assinine. I receive an infraction for posting a pm, which appears to be Bohditree’s pet peeve, but I don’t recevie one for call someone an out right Moron or **** WIT.
Lok sent me a message unsolicitated and I decided to make a sent private message public because it was now in my possession and there for my right to do with as I pleased. Now if I saw an explicit rule stating not to do such an action I would expect to get an infraction. I have looked for this rule but have yet to find it… I am still looking.
I am also noticing that out of all the moderator Bohditree is the only supplying me with these infractions. Bohditree, if you are goning to give me infractions at least attempt to make them sound and sensible or at least entertaining! I don’t mind getting taken to the woodshed but please base the punishment off of posted " Proper forum behavior" infractions and not pet peevees:)
I understand that and you are prefectly correct in your observation because you base it upon what you believe to be right or wrong.
What I am arguing here is based upon perceived ettiquette and applied rules.
No where have I found a rule statting I should not post a PM.
The infraction I have received for posting the pm is that of insulting the person who sent the email.
So I insulted the pm sender, who makes some outlandish claims, by posting his own delusions
The infraction does not match the action. If I received the infraction for calling Lok a bull****ting liar, then yes I would say I deserved the infraction.
Now when I asked, and I am still asking, why is posting a pm a bad thing, I was answered, “it is a PRIVATE email”
So it leaves me to wonder, would i have been ok if I wrote a post without the Email and said “This guy Lok is insane he told me event A, Event B and outlandish claim C” More than likely the community would have replied POST evidence or it didn’t happen…
Now what I am also find a bit humourus is that out of all the moderators I only get sanctioned when this paticular moderator is on otherwise I am a safe little troll. So this leads me to wonder if this is a unviersal belief among the kung fu board moderators, an implied rule of KFO, a written rule or what?
If it is a loose belief and differs from mod to mod then something more concrete should be posted about what is actually allowed and what is frowned upon.
I would love to hear Gene’s personal perspective on this subject of discourse
Making PMs public doesn’t bother me. Sometimes they’re too funny to keep private. Yours sorta fit that bill. When I used to be active on here there was a particular complex persona who was sort of like a troll. People used to make private messages from that person public, including Gene himself. He might not’ve actually posted the PM verbatim but he certainly discussed the intent of it. Of course in that case we all knew the persona was crazy so we all laughed along with it.
Private does not = garanteed silence. There are two parties involved and unless both party A and party B agree to message exclusivity then there is no real expectance of secrecy.
For example, I don’t know Kohlop at all but yet he fet the need to message me. Fine I answered his message back but then he fired off something quite odd that I thought should be viewd by the public at large.
The question at hand is "where is it dictated that what I did was incorrect or warranted a infraction?
I would also like to know how is my action of posting a pm an insult to a member of this board? Did displaying his silliness consititue an insult? If so, how? If what he said is true then there is no insult and if he told me , a complete stranger, this info why would he not share it with anyone else?
Did he get caught with his pants down and did I do something wrong by pointing and laughing?
now with the Gene sample, I want to know if Gene gave himself an infraction.
Bohditree still sucks though and yes yes yes I know INFRACTION
[QUOTE=Notintheface;779234]Your example is exaclty what I am looking for! So if this behavior has occured, even by Gene himself, then why is it wrong?[/QUOTE]Gene’s case was complex. The person was not so much liked as respected. They had a thick skin, which made it fun to argue with them. You could say anything you wanted to them and they wouldn’t complain to the moderators ever. I’ve also been on the brink of getting banned for calling someone a bstard or something similar just once. After that settled down I did it again jokingly and was almost banned again. I prefer thick skinned people. But the one persona broke many (written) rules themselves and were actively breaking rules at the time, so Gene posting PMs from them was maybe different than posting PMs from someone “innocent”.
Once I googled that persona’s forum name and found that after they were banned from here, they were banned from pretty much every martial arts and fitness forum on the net. Moderators here had a lot more patience than most other forums. Of course, the persona’s downward spiral into schizophrenia/pathological lying became more pronounced as time went by so maybe they deserved a banning earlier in those other forums.
I guess what I’m saying is I would expect an “infraction” :rolleyes: if I was breaking rules and the other party complained. Gene’s seems like a pretty cool guy, though. It’s not that easy to get banned unless you really set out to. GDA’s still around, for example ;). You’re still a small fish at this stage.
And I guess if you weren’t breaking any rules, you’ve got nothing to worry about.
OK, I just checked the rules that you have to read when you register and there’s nothing saying you shouldn’t post PMs. It might break etiquette and pss people off, but it isn’t necessarily forbidden.
[QUOTE=Notintheface;779236]Private does not = garanteed silence. There are two parties involved and unless both party A and party B agree to message exclusivity then there is no real expectance of secrecy.
For example, I don’t know Kohlop at all but yet he fet the need to message me. Fine I answered his message back but then he fired off something quite odd that I thought should be viewd by the public at large.
The question at hand is "where is it dictated that what I did was incorrect or warranted a infraction?
I would also like to know how is my action of posting a pm an insult to a member of this board? Did displaying his silliness consititue an insult? If so, how? If what he said is true then there is no insult and if he told me , a complete stranger, this info why would he not share it with anyone else?
Did he get caught with his pants down and did I do something wrong by pointing and laughing?
now with the Gene sample, I want to know if Gene gave himself an infraction.
Bohditree still sucks though and yes yes yes I know INFRACTION[/QUOTE]
And how do we know the PM’s weren’t altered ??
Its a tricky slope that is best left not navigated.
If you didn’t think you did anything wrong then you need to understand what private means ie: NOT FOR PUBLIC.
If someone’s acting crazy/threatening (without being baited into this kind of behavior), or if they’re acting completely contradictory in public giving you a hard time in the process, and you’re not giving out their personal info, I don’t see there being any problem with that. If someone I don’t know is being a complete **** through private messages when I never indicated I wanted to have a private conversation with them, I have no problem posting their unsolicited emails/pm’s on a public forum. I know a couple of us have posted crazy emails from a certain nutty teacher in the past I don’t know the complete context of your situation (what transpired before hand) so it’s hard to say if it was right or wrong, but you’re definitely not the first to post private messages/emails in public. Of course trolling isn’t going to gain you any sympathy, lol. And like the dude above me said, there’s no proof you didn’t alter the private message without confirmation from the other party. Trolling doesn’t exactly gain you any credibility either
And how do we know the PM’s weren’t altered ??
Its a tricky slope that is best left not navigated
You are right that alteration makes it a slippery slope but the other party has access to the sent letter in their mail since they did send it.
Also at the time I received the infraction the person who sent me the email was not on. I received the infraction as far as I know from Bohditree just because he saw my post, which had been up for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG while, decided it didn’t meet his standards and I got the infraction. I am sure other MODs saw it but I guess they choose to leave it be.
and I received the infraction around 07-17-2007 12:21 PM
Almost a full day before anyone said anything. Even though Bohditree may be a nice guy but arbitrary nature of enforcing a nonconcrete rule is Bull****!
Plus to chalk it up to it being in the nautre of insulting another forum member is also BS.
not that I care all that much but I will throw in my 2cents.
If you are going to send a message to someone on the internet, thats your deal.
If I send a message to someone, yes I am sending it for them to read for themselves.
At the same time I do not send PM’s to people I may think will make them public, and if I do, I only send information I would not mind made public.
Thats just how the internet works people. You have to realize there is nothing TRULY PERSONAL on the internet.
thats for letters, phone calls, and in person talks, IN REAL LIFE!
anything you ever do on the internet you should do with the full knowledge it is wholey public and will be given out, scrutinized, made fun of, laughed at, applauded, praised, ****ed on, stepped on, etc.
its the internet…its the internet…its the internet…sink in yet?
Posting PMs is by definition, poor netiquette. That’s obvious to anyone, even a troll. Personally, I never share PMs. I appreciate some of the kind comments people have left about me above - if I’ve earned any of them, it’s because I maintain confidentiality. You have no idea how many secrets I keep. That being said, I also attempt to be as prudent about every email I send. It’s one of the most challenging aspects of my job since I send hundreds of emails a week. But as a professional writer, I am very aware of the power of word, so I always give me best effort at being as appropriate as possible, even on this forum.
Notintheface, Bodhitree has been one of our mods for a long time. He’s contributed a great deal of time and effort to keeping our forum here running smoothly. I stand behind his decisions and I think it’s admirable of him to have given you as much rope as he has. If you were in my face like you are in his now, I would have banned you long ago. Until now, I’ve totally empowered him to decide your fate on this forum. However, given this thread, I’m now considering overriding Bodhitree’s decision to allow you to remain. If Bodhitree asks, I’ll ban you immediately. But I might just ban you before he asks, if you keep this up. I have far better things to do then explain obvious netiquette to you.
if there is a version of “caveat emptor” for PM senders, then I think they should have it emblazoned on their monitors somewhere;
in fact, I always send a PM as if it is something that might be posted at some point, so I censure myself even moreso than I do when posting publically!
here’s how it is, IMHO: a PM is not used to send something that ought not to be posted publically - it is done simply to have a conversation that could occur publically, but is done with the convenience of not having any distracting chatter in the form of other posts
at the same time, if it’s an exchange between two folks who have the arrived agreement of “secrecy”, to post the contents is definitely bad form…but should not neccesarilly be actionable for the reasons stated above, IMHO
HOWEVER, to send an unsolicited PM to someone, especially a chastizing or hostile one, and one that could be used as ammo to back up a public confrontation between the two people - hey, too bad for the sender…
finally, realize that the content of a PM can be edited or even made up completely, leading to at least temporary confusion, until (if) a mod comes in and corrects that (I assume they can access the actual text if need be to verify the authenticity), so take it all with a grain of salt, right?
Notintheface, Bodhitree has been one of our mods for a long time. He’s contributed a great deal of time and effort to keeping our forum here running smoothly. I stand behind his decisions and I think it’s admirable of him to have given you as much rope as he has. If you were in my face like you are in his now, I would have banned you long ago. Until now, I’ve totally empowered him to decide your fate on this forum. [. I have far better things to do then explain obvious netiquette to you.
Then I’ll be honest then Gene, I’ll take the ban. Because All I am doing is challenging a perceived ettiquette extended bewteen to indivudals that agree upon secretcy and privacy and I have never extended that hand. In challenging this, am doing something wrong then so be it i’ll go down for that.
Ask to read the pms sent back and forth between us and the penalties I was given. Publishing a pm=insult. that is down right silly.
SIZE=“3”]However, given this thread, I’m now considering overriding Bodhitree’s decision to allow you to remain. If Bodhitree asks, I’ll ban [/SIZE]you immediately. But I might just ban you before he asks, if you keep this up
Have I disrespected anyone in this thread? Actually a good debate on netiquette is going on becasue I posed this question.
He’s contributed a great deal of time and effort to keeping our forum here running smoothly. I stand behind his decisions and I think it’s admirable of him to have given you as much rope as he has.
I have not doubted his contributions to this forum but I am questions his current dealings with me. given me as much rope, please I have seen people here do much worse and still be around.
I appreciate that Bodhitree has kept me from being banned and I appreciate that but at the same time does that mean I should not still question policy? Or publicly speak up about what I feel is skewed forum practices?
I don’t mind getting taken to the woodshed but please base the punishment off of posted " Proper forum behavior" infractions and not pet peevees:)
