Throughout a lot of the threads I have read on this forum in the past year it is obvious that there are two kinds of people on this forum. One group believes in the magical “chi-blast” powers of Kung-Fu (even thought they deny it and make fun of it). The other group believes firmly in the fighting aspect of Kung-Fu and takes a no BS stance on the “special chi powers” that some claim to know, or at least believes exists.
Brian Kennedy’s book (which has been recommended by at least 2 people on this forum) takes the latter stance. And it spends the first 50 pages or so talking about the history of Kung-Fu having been contaminated by mystical stories of midget albino immortals creating Tai Chi.
Somewhere after page 100 (before page 115) Kennedy is interviewing the owner of Lion books (reprinters of old Chinese training manuals based in Taiwan) and he takes the same view as Kennedy, for the most part. But he does explain that an instructor friend of his sought out another instructor (White Crane) and watched this WC guy as he jumped 2 stories in the air. This is also the second time I have heard a 3rd hand account of this same ability (jumping 2 stories in the air).
So my question to you all is this, (and I am intersted in hearing from the chi-blasters and non-chi blasters alike) for those of you who do NOT believe in these abilities, where is the cut off. Can you believe a man jumping 2 stores in the air, but 3 stories is ridiculous? And those of you who DO believe in superhuman abilities, where is your cut-off? Can you believe a man can jump 5 stories, or levitate several inches off the ground, but controlled human flight is impossible?
no one can jump higher than the best nba-er as far as I know lol.
highest jumping kick record goes to an inuit guy at something like a 13ft kick.
That’s more than one story, so there in is the limits of my belief on the matter of jumping, levitating or controlled unassissited human flight. Simply put, there is no one who has shown this ability and those who have have used tricks or devices to achieve their illusion.
Chi is a seperate matter and despite peoples wild and various claims and assumptions I still believe there is a unifying life force that courses through all living things. THis is chi. It’s use is enhanced through cultivation and practice, but the manipulation of it is at best difficult and pretty much non showable outside of ‘hey that guy looks young for 60 years old’ or how come that 80 year od man still does tai chi, doesn’t need glasses or a cane and my own grandpa who doesn’t exrecise and cultivate his chi can’t walk without assisstance, craps in a bag on his side and has glasses so thick I’m surprised he sees ata ll.
This is the most highly contrasting and convincing evidence of the value of cultivating ones own sourec of chi
Maybe way back in the day when these old masters trained their whole lives and long hard core hours of training on a daily basis. They may have been able to do some physical feats that would have been percieved as superhuman.
Modern day practitioners no way. Modern society does not allow that kind of time.
As for Chi, I am firm believer. I am a Reiki master. So i have felt and seen the effects of chi. But in a healing capacity only. No exploding heart punches from 10 feet away:eek:
Maybe in the old days the masters were able to affect the chi flow in there opponents to be fatal or disabilitating, but not like we see in the movies, that’s for sure.
I hope that people can be completely honest in their responses to this thread, cuz i am just as curious as you.
most legends are loosely based on fact. The world record high jump is something like 11 ft, and the world record running long jump is around 30 something feet.
We have all seen Jacky Chan run up the corners of the buildings, and we have seen Tony Jaa do that amazing jump kick which must have been higher than a basketball net. If you haven’t then you need to check it out. Also check out the Le Parkour sites.
So one person witneses this, tells another, who tells another…you get the idea.
Has anyone ever seen the movie, “Sgt. York”, with Gary Cooper? He single handedly captures a group of German soldiers, probably about 10, and one guy tells another, and the story goes from ten, to 15, to an entire battalion, to the Kaiser.
Does Ch’i exist? Well, I’m what I call a hopeful skeptic. I truly want to believe, but you’d better be able to show me. So far all the so-called demos, bending rods, swords, spears-those I used to do at partied in my teens. These are feats of skill, not ch’i. I Anyone who doubts this, I will show you how in under ten seconds, and you can become a ch’i master.I still don’t know how to make a bowl stick to my stomach, but I know it’s a skill, not Ch’i. The guy on TV who made the paper burn in his hands…I guess you eould have to ask Penn and Teller. James Randi still hasn’t given out a dime yet.
Do I feel ch’i? Yes, I believe I do. I have felt and witnessed many things, most I still don’t know what to make of it. I definately believe in acupuncture as well.
I would love to believe in levitation and no-touch ch’i ballstrikes, but I have not yet felt them, and those old men who do demos won’t playwith me either.
Whether or not chi exists obviously will always be hard to either prove or disprove, but look at it from a standpoint of physics vs. mysticism. Someone who practices kung fu for years will develop more powerful strikes, use an opponent’s energy against them, and be in more control of their bodies allowing them to do amazing things to the non-practioner. To me it is a matter of training and body mechanics. When the body does something over and over again, it becomes reactionary and the energy dispersed is total body energy rather than one limb or part of the body. When a beginner throws a punch, they usually use only arm, shoulder, or upper body strenth, rather than using legs and hips and making it an entire body strike. As the practioner gets better, he/she utilizes more of their body making the strike more powerful. Is this chi development? If you want to believe that, I think it is more body mechanics through repetition. People always want to believe in magical mumbo jumbo, but there is nothing magical about martial arts, it is a study of the body and mind coming together to produce results.
like I said, I am hopeful, but I need to feel it for myself. I have seen and felt enough things that Iam not a disbeliever, I simply want to experience it for myself.
Give me the right Mexican food and I’ll produce for you a deadly Chi Blast
I’ve felt first hand the cold touch from the needle in cotton, but stnading still while a guy holds your wrist and using it to stop a person trying to smack you in the head are two different things…
There was a guy who was advertizing on Howard Stern, who by touching certain acupuncture points, claimed to be able to give women orgasms. Now THAT would be a skill worth developing. Dillman is wasting his life away, doing his point touch knockouts. I’d be hittin the clubs!
I’ve never met any jumpers, but I know the old skills are still out there, some of which can be learned later in life than I expected.
As far as second hand accounts go (that’d be 3rd hand for the forum, unfortunately,) my cousin saw his friend’s vietnamese father jump up onto a second story fire escape from ground level. When he asked him how he did that, the guy just said “practice.”
I myself have seen firsthand a man with a Peng Jing so developed that he can, without perceptibly moving, launch people who are pushing against him into the air. His name is Eric Tuttle. He’s an internal guy in his sixties who said he started training the Peng Jing in his forties after seeing another old master do it. I shook his hand, and at first I thought it was really soft and almost wet, but when I tried to actually “shake” his hand, I found that I couldn’t. It was the best example of “Iron wrapped in Cotton” I’ve ever seen.
He is also one of two people I know to be able to make their hair stand on end on command.
I was thinking about this. To jump to the 2nd story of a building, all I have to do is jump 1 floor. Cause I only need to land on the “ceiling” of the first floor. Some buildings have low roofs (10 feet or so), and I would surmise there are buildings of this low height in China. So when we talk about someone being ablt to jump “2 stories” it might only actually be 1 story, which in turn may be low and jump about 10 feet. While this is still a high jump, it is not “2 stories”.
Sifu Ross, while I agree you standing there and being struck in a fight with NiC is 2 different things, what can you say about NiC. Would you surmise there is some application, or just a “parlor trick” showing off certain skills development? Like bending a spear in the throat, while it can be done, no one does it mid-combat in an attempt to deflect the spear?
I could buy into someone jumping ten feet straight up… 25 feet not so much…
The only example in my own experience demonstrating “chi” outside of just feeling it is putting out the candle as a demonstration of “fa jing”
One of my favorite achievements was when I could first put out the candle with a closed fist… its no “chi blast” but it made me grin… I think becuase I saw it in some random kung fu movie as the last step in training before the fighter was ready to take on his greatest enemy… some random gordon liu flick.
Grandmaster Henry Leung of Fut Sao Wing Chun in New York had some scary skills including the ability to jump very high. Speak to his disciple SiFu James Cama and see what he has to say first hand accounst of his sifu’s skill
Let’s just say that as far as ultra high white crane jumps and light-stepping sort of stuff goes: I’ll believe it when I see it and not a second earlier.
In 1972 I witnessed a 5ft 5 in man 17 years old with one step jump 6.5 ft over a band stand that height clearing it with his tucked lower leg. I witnessed the same person 1.5 years later do a “Classical Flying” side kick with 5 steps to the height of 9.8 ft. There are stories of people utilizing "super human strength to lift tractors off loved ones. The people some women weigh 150 # and lift 1500 to 2000 pounds. why then cant a person with the right training do more of the same ? Quote from a movie Luke : I cant believe it. Yoda : That is why you fail. Just believe, train and it will be so. With pure faith one can accomplish anything. Our worst enemy is our own self doubt. KC Perhaps the masters of old had no doubt.
I witnessed the same person 1.5 years later do a “Classical Flying” side kick with 5 steps to the height of 9.8 ft.
Although that would be impressive… if it in fact occured… that is still well short of two stories.
There are stories of people utilizing "super human strength to lift tractors off loved ones. The people some women weigh 150 # and lift 1500 to 2000 pounds. why then cant a person with the right training do more of the same ?
Give me a URL to proof of these stories. There are stories of men with a hook for a hand gutting teenagers on lovers lookout. Doesn’t make them true.
Quote from a movie Luke : I cant believe it. Yoda : That is why you fail. Just believe, train and it will be so. With pure faith one can accomplish anything. Our worst enemy is our own self doubt. KC Perhaps the masters of old had no doubt.
First of all you just quoted Star Wars in a serious martial arts discussion. Not too good for the credibility of your argument. Second in the scene in question Yoda was busy levitating an X-Wing Fighter at the time. If I saw someone levitating a large aircraft and it was clear that no pre-arranged trickery were used I’d believe it. To date nobody has ever provided such a proof.
I don’t doubt my ability to hit hard, to avoid injuring my hands and wrists when striking a hard target (like a head), to resist pain from blunt impact strikes or to place a shot well. I don’t doubt my ability to use wrestling techniques to control an opponent and put them into a vulnerable position. Why? Because these are what we call “verifiable”. Magical Qi powers have (to date) been unverifiable and as such I doubt them.
No argument I saw it, period. research incredible feats of strength on the web you will find all you need, You are what is known as a pecimist(? spelling). Anyway the old argument is just cause you havent seen it does not mean it dont exist. You cant "prove " everything. But it can still exist. Also the movie has nothing to do with the validity of the ststement. Maybe I should have said “If you build they will come” KC:mad: :rolleyes: :eek:
Actually Kwaichang the attitude I am espousing is not one of pessimism but rather one of scepticism.
There is a saying I heard once: it’s one thing to have an open mind. It’s another to have a mind so open your brain rolls out. I have simply said that I trust what my senses tell me. My senses do not tell me that martial artists regularly bypass the stairs by way of jumping. Nor do people have the ability to do no-touch KOs. Nor can people use their magical poking powers to defeat a physically superior opponent. As for what you have “seen” you are just a string of text on a wire. You could be a legitimate martial artist or you could be a 12 year old DBZ fan sitting in his mom’s basement bsing to sound cool. Either way I don’t know.
Now since you have made certain claims the burden of proof falls upon you to prove that you are not full of it. Pony up some URLs from valid sources. Give us some video of these super-extreme jumps. Give us our Yoda-esque levitation demonstration!
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