It is scary close, in movement and flavor, to both Sum Nung WCK and Cho Ga WCK. The same historical signatures appear across these branches in movement, platform, and even language.
Beyond stories and personal beliefs, the generosity in families like the Fung’s, sharing their art, gives us the best glimpse back in time, and combined with the Yip Man family, the clearest picture of what Leung Jan taught, and combined with the Cho’s and Sum Nung, what our shared Red Junk ancestors taught.
It is scary close, in movement and flavor, to both Sum Nung WCK and Cho Ga WCK. The same historical signatures appear across these branches in movement, platform, and even language. . . Beyond stories and personal beliefs, the generosity in families like the Fung’s, sharing their art, gives us the best glimpse back in time, and combined with the Yip Man family, the clearest picture of what Leung Jan taught, and combined with the Cho’s and Sum Nung, what our shared Red Junk ancestors taught. RR
I don’t know why you are making the point (the context for it) but I agree that when we put marketing aside and outlandish, unproven claims aside, and get down to nail and tacks, we see the same core elements across lineages that can be reliably (i.e., not just “grandmaster” so-and-so says but can’t prove) traced back historically. On the other hand, we also need to recognize that WCK is a conceptual art, and concepts permit a great deal of flexibility in interpretation/expression (which makes absolute sense as WCK takes the approach of letting the opponent tell us how to defeat him; as each opponent is unique we need a great deal of flexibility to “fit in” with each). It’s this flexibility which is WCK’s greatest strength and also its greatest weakness. TN
It is scary close, in movement and flavor, to both Sum Nung WCK and Cho Ga WCK. The same historical signatures appear across these branches in movement, platform, and even language.
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IMHO, yup, looking at it, there is also an unique signature of Emei 12 Zhuang within the set the old master did…
If Brother and sister from Gulo asked me I will say yes. there is an unique 12 zhuang’s signature…
Also we do the same type of Chi Sau…
We are from same root.
And now, the end is near, and so I face, the final curtain.
My friend, I’ll say it clear,
I’ll state my case, of which I’m certain
I’ve lived, a life that’s full, I’ve traveled each and every highway
But more, much more than this, I did it my way.
Regrets, I’ve had a few, but then again, too few to mention
I did, what I had to do, and saw it through, without exemption
I planned, each charted course, each careful, step along the byway,
But more, much more than this, I did it my way.
Yes, there were times, I’m sure you knew
When I bit off, more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up, and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall, and did it my way…
The introduction tells of Leung Jan returning to Ku Lo at the age of 70 and taught this version of Wing Chun to Wong Wah Sarn (27 years old). Wong Wah Sarn then, at the age of 82, taught the 17 year old boy Fung Chun, and so on and so forth.
When Yip man made the video before his death at the age of 70-something, he needed constant reminder of the techniques, and to all honesty, he looked weak and frail.
Without being disrespectful, I think the Wing Chun taught by a master in his prime would be ‘different’ to when he’s nearing his death, where his body can no longer exert the strength and energy necessary to show his students first hand the full devastation of the art. Noting that experience increases over age being a fact, but so is the memory decreasing.
Sorry if I’ve offended some people, but it is simply my views and observation.
You have a point…maybe. Age alone is not a indicator of fitness at all. My Sigung in Hung Gar is around about 70 and he can easily do his forms without any help or resting. LOL. As can many, many others.
Yip Man had throat cancer, if I remember correctly, from years of smoking. He filmed those movies litteraly days before death. I am quite sure the outcome would be quite different had they filmed them a year or two earlier before he started to show the serious signs of cancer.
I don’t know what if any health issues Leung Jan had, but it may or may not have played a role in what he taught. We can’t just assume it did because he was old and Yip Man looked bad on video. Don’t make sense, comparing apples and oranges. But the story does say that he figured he wouldn’t have long to live so he taught an abbriviated/concentrated/condensed version. But that could be said in hindsight. Who knows, maybe he thought he had years left to go and was just condensing his wing chun for other pracitical reasons.
Anyways, I am looking for ward to seeing that clip. Unfortunatly it is down. Arghh. Hofully it will be back up!
IMO, and in my experience of being taught, teaching has little to do with “showing.” A good teacher, guides the student through the learning process. Once they learn how to learn wing chun, its central point, what its all about (something that can’t be described in words) then they can take the art as far as they want to. This is what makes wing chun so dynamic, but also allows for a student to surpass his teacher - something that can’t be accomplished if the teacher just shows the student how to do things.
so showing a student the full devastation wing chun can cause won’t let them be able to accomplish it, showing them how will. A 70-80 year old man can still show a student how to create the power, while being too old to express it maximally.
Terence - I’m posting it so that people can see for themselves, through both Yip Man (what most are familiar with) and Gulao/Koo Lo, what it was that Leung Jan consistently taught, and how that same teaching is consitent with what was passed down through the Sum Nung and Cho Ga lineages. It’s not a matter of so-and-so says there was secret version “x” or this-and-that claims the complete original system looked different via “y”. Many people have said look to the system(s), well, here they are, look to them.
On your second point, this is true enough, but every kite needs a string. It’s fine, in fact required, that you soar, but if you lose your ground (what came before), you can soar off into oblivion (lose the core).
saulauchung - Grandmaster Fung Chun (in the video) is over 70 years of age. He looks pretty good. Ever see Pan Nam use the 12’+ pole at over 80? Moved it like an f’n toothpick. Sum Nung lived over 75 years and at that age could put people into the floor. The wisdom earned over those decades can be invaluable to a student.
Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Terence - I’m posting it so that people can see for themselves, through both Yip Man (what most are familiar with) and Gulao/Koo Lo, what it was that Leung Jan consistently taught, and how that same teaching is consitent with what was passed down through the Sum Nung and Cho Ga lineages. It’s not a matter of so-and-so says there was secret version “x” or this-and-that claims the complete original system looked different via “y”. Many people have said look to the system(s), well, here they are, look to them.
. [/B]
IMHO,
It is just a matter of time for the “original” face of SLT to be revial. We all have never lost it anyway. why seek outside…
there is only Spring, there is no "watery version " of spring. Have faith with the ancient ancestors, don’t need to change ancestors…
Terence - I’m posting it so that people can see for themselves, through both Yip Man (what most are familiar with) and Gulao/Koo Lo, what it was that Leung Jan consistently taught, and how that same teaching is consitent with what was passed down through the Sum Nung and Cho Ga lineages. It’s not a matter of so-and-so says there was secret version “x” or this-and-that claims the complete original system looked different via “y”. Many people have said look to the system(s), well, here they are, look to them. RR
You’ll never convince “those people” (“I have the secret version” or “original version”) that they don’t; they are not motivated for the right reasons, and you can’t do anything for someone motivated by the wrong reasons. TN
On your second point, this is true enough, but every kite needs a string. It’s fine, in fact required, that you soar, but if you lose your ground (what came before), you can soar off into oblivion (lose the core). RR
True enough. TN
saulauchung - Grandmaster Fung Chun (in the video) is over 70 years of age. He looks pretty good. Ever see Pan Nam use the 12’+ pole at over 80? Moved it like an f’n toothpick. Sum Nung lived over 75 years and at that age could put people into the floor. The wisdom earned over those decades can be invaluable to a student. RR
No doubt after a certain point - one that is different for each individual - our physical prowess will begin to decline. How that affects our skills is also an individual matter. But it seems to me that if we have developed the skills, which comes only by using them, that we will still be able to guide others along the path (it is only the old guys that haven’t really done anything that are useless). For example, Helio may not be what he once was, but is certainly an excellent resource and teacher (he knows from firsthand experience). TN
what a curious piece of film.is that a sort of shorthand
slt? i have often wondered [hoped] that wck could be
shortened,or learn’t without having to memorise that
whole set.so,this form then,is a shorter,separate way?
Captain - Gulao has very short sets, the Fung family 12 of them with some extensions. Among those sets are Siu Lien Tao (Little First Training) and Dai Lien Tao (Big First Training). Saam Pai Fut is part of the DLT, I believe.
thank you,rene.now that’s vey interesting to me.what that
version seems to be saying,is that you can shorten wck,
and yet still “learn” wck.aslong as you incorporate chi-sau
and such.it’s the essiential ingredients you need.
and i bet a quicker version is what they teach coppers
and other people who frankly don’t want to bother with
the lengthy slt.the sly then,was thought up later on.do
you therefore,really need slt and the other bits?
captain sez:
and i bet a quicker version is what they teach coppers
and other people who frankly don’t want to bother with
the lengthy slt.the sly then,was thought up later on.do
you therefore,really need slt and the other bits?
True- why bother if one doesnt want to learn the art?
Most "coppers’ dont know much. In the US very short term training in many things- more dependence in communications tech.
if you understand what I mean.
(hehe just kidding)