Before I stopped training with my first master I loved the weapons stuff: main weapons were 6ft and 7ft staffs, butterfly knifes, dao, cane shield and single knife, spear and tigerfork (still got a hand made tigerfork under my bed which was given to me do some students and sifu I helped teach)
When I was solely doing MMA and grappling I stopped all weapon work and developed a dislike for it, now im back also training TCMA my current sifu has a boatload of weapons to teach lol, his masters family arts weapons are legion, add in CLF sets from both hung sing and buck sing we have picked up, the wing chun pole and knifes, and the hakka arts weapons and there are too many to think about lol They are good for body conditioning coordination etc but I can take or leave most of them
The weapons I actually train week in and week out are the pole (our family short pole form, buk sing pole form and the wing chun 6 and a half point form) and the butterfly knifes although I prefer the hakka arts sets to the wing chun or hung gar stuff. I like the pole as it help develop waist power and is practical, i like the butterfly knifes because they are fun We also spar pole against knifes regularly. We also work the ratten sticks as well single and double now and then
Weapons training gives you something that MAY be lost in strictly bare handed fighting and that is a respect for footwork.
Many times in sparring we will “take a shot to give a shot” or to move in, it’s a sacrifice play and while still done with footwork to minimize the damage, it can easily degrade.
With weapons and the healthy respect one gets when you get a good solid wack, you learn the immense importance of footwork and angles.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1205410]Weapons training gives you something that MAY be lost in strictly bare handed fighting and that is a respect for footwork.
Many times in sparring we will “take a shot to give a shot” or to move in, it’s a sacrifice play and while still done with footwork to minimize the damage, it can easily degrade.
With weapons and the healthy respect one gets when you get a good solid wack, you learn the immense importance of footwork and angles.[/QUOTE]
yep when we spar butterfly knifes v 6 ft pole (we use a pvc pole but still hurts when hit with it) its the footwork and angling that you really have to watch, as you say i dont mind trading shots empty hand (at 6ft and 230pounds i have an advantage most of the time) , when a 6ft weapon is coming at me my footwork improves alot
[QUOTE=Frost;1205412]yep when we spar butterfly knifes v 6 ft pole (we use a pvc pole but still hurts when hit with it) its the footwork and angling that you really have to watch, as you say i dont mind trading shots empty hand (at 6ft and 230pounds i have an advantage most of the time) , when a 6ft weapon is coming at me my footwork improves alot[/QUOTE]
On the button.
When I started doing padded stick work ( Padded as inprotective gear is being worn) I realized that the gear gave me enough protection VS rattan sticks that I was “taking a shot to give a shot” without really noticing it that much.
I stopped the padded body sparring and went with padded sticks and it was an eye opener.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1205413]On the button.
When I started doing padded stick work ( Padded as inprotective gear is being worn) I realized that the gear gave me enough protection VS rattan sticks that I was “taking a shot to give a shot” without really noticing it that much.
I stopped the padded body sparring and went with padded sticks and it was an eye opener.[/QUOTE]
yep and suddenly some of the silly stances in some of the forms dont seem so silly when a weapon is coming at your head, at your kneecap or straight down the middle trying to spike you in the chest lol,
[QUOTE=Frost;1205414]yep and suddenly some of the silly stances in some of the forms dont seem so silly when a weapon is coming at your head, at your kneecap or straight down the middle trying to spike you in the chest lol,[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Frost;1205418]maybe TCMA works better with weapons in hand than lol[/QUOTE]
This is what I think, and it’s not a bad thing or a negative at all against TCMA. Marketing 101 is to define or create your niche and then own your market. I think it’s entirely possible for TCMA to dominate and own the weapons niche. If we can translate solid skills to improvised weaponry…
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1205424]Everything works better with weapons in hand.
Imagine the damage a boxer can do with a push dagger in each fist.[/QUOTE]
thats not what i menat and i suspect you know it
Alot of the movements in the forms: low stances, shifting of balance, one leg stuff etc are impractical for modern empty hand work, but with a weapon in hand they make alot of sense. maybe a lot of the sets were weapon sets first and were adopted into emptyhand by people used to fighting mainly with weapons and there was a major problem in translation lol
[QUOTE=Frost;1205427]thats not what i menat and i suspect you know it
Alot of the movements in the forms: low stances, shifting of balance, one leg stuff etc are impractical for modern empty hand work, but with a weapon in hand they make alot of sense. maybe a lot of the sets were weapon sets first and were adopted into emptyhand by people used to fighting mainly with weapons and there was a major problem in translation lol[/QUOTE]
A lot of stuff makes more sense with a knife, but then a lot of stuff makes more sense in a clinch too. I don’t know where this “fancy kickboxing” aesthetic came from really.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1205404]Ah, Nicolai Hel…good stuff !
Improvised weaponry should be a must and, with a good core in edge and impact weapons, it is easy to turn anything into a weapon.
Key is principles over specific techniques.[/QUOTE]
Learn the techniques, discover the principles, freedom.
[QUOTE=Frost;1205427]thats not what i menat and i suspect you know it
Alot of the movements in the forms: low stances, shifting of balance, one leg stuff etc are impractical for modern empty hand work, but with a weapon in hand they make alot of sense. maybe a lot of the sets were weapon sets first and were adopted into emptyhand by people used to fighting mainly with weapons and there was a major problem in translation lol[/QUOTE]
I think the importance of this CANNOT be underestimated. Combat with or against weapons is very different from empty hand combat.
If we interpret true self-defense/combat to mean the expectation of weapons and/or multiple opponents, then a lot of the TCMA that doesn’t quite fit in the ring starts to make more sense.
[QUOTE=ShaolinDan;1206449]I think the importance of this CANNOT be underestimated. Combat with or against weapons is very different from empty hand combat.
If we interpret true self-defense/combat to mean the expectation of weapons and/or multiple opponents, then a lot of the TCMA that doesn’t quite fit in the ring starts to make more sense.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree. It is interesting to note however that fencing had an influence in western boxing especially before gloves came along. I suspect that it was the same in TCMA.
We also spar pole against knifes regularly. We also work the ratten sticks as well single and double now and then
