You are all talking about pulling the toes back and hitting with the ball of the foot right?
When I think of snap kick, I allways think of a shot to the groin with the toes down(hitting with top of the foot). Hitting with the ball of the foot like that, I allways heard it refered to as a front ball thrust kick or just front thrust kick if they didn’t ever use the heel. I’ve never seen that technique in a kungfu form, though I’ve had a coach who adopted it from his previous tae kwon do training. He considered it more for pushing someone away, from what I remember. I have a hard time pulling my toes back in that manner though, so I never practiced it much
After going to main page I was unable to access index on that site. Some programming error message.
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I was wondering if anyone knows a link that has something form the same source.
I was looking for similar diagrams of “tornadao kick” - not the crescent kick but the one done from the ground rising up twisting the legs pushing off the ground with the hands and the shoulders.
Hapkido uses a kick ball of foot to the groin that circles outward thus kicking and dislodging opponents hip.
Hapkido also uses a kick to groin with toes but that kick has an unusually delvery method which makes it not so standard to block.
The kicking foot first rises to the inside of the opposite knee with flat of foot pointing sideways and the knee pointing out sideways a little. Then the kick shoots straight out rather than forward and makes contact with toes but the bottom of foot faces sideways not facing the ground.
It is a self defence kick rather than sparring/fighting kick. It has short range because the leg cannot be fully extended and still do the kick..
The cresent kick is good to use it you lock up grappling with both hands with opponent.
The Hopgar i learned also chambers to the front for the roundhouse.
I had thought before that this was the way of most kungfu.
Originally posted by wolfen I was looking for similar diagrams of “tornadao kick” - not the crescent kick but the one done from the ground rising up twisting the legs pushing off the ground with the hands and the shoulders.
We call that a Star Kick.
Originally posted by Judge Pen Another general question: Some styles, when throwing a front kick, chamber the kick, extend/snap/push out, and then re-chamber the kick either for another kick or for a step (like Abel does in his clip with the round-kick). Other styles, like the Pong Lai group or the form diagram that MK posted, extend/snap/push the kick out, and then let the leg step to the ground. The only kick I do this way is my front-thrust kick. Why the difference in stepping down vs. re-chambering?
Where do you get the info about the Pong Lai group about the kicking? Clip or post? Referring to front kick in a form or just general exercise?
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There’s a Taiwan form called “little tiger swallow”. After the Tornado kick there is special attention not to just drop the foot, but to drop the foreleg first keeping the knee high before going in for the low horse-punch. There are various hand works depending which version before stepping/ diving in but the knee is keep high to guard. Also the balance is needed as the next move pushes off the back foot in a low diving in horse stance.
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By handworks i mean a possible right hand punch and left hand palm edge strike/sealing which could be a counter to any grabbing attempts.
The front kick can be practiced breaking it down in two step process. First part is balancing and keeping knee high. This method is for learn balance, protection and giving various options what to do next; ie step forward. backward, whatever.
JP has trained with us (Pong Lai) during a seminar last spring.
In some of our drills/forms, front kicks —either rising or push—drop straight down after full extension, heel first , to facilitate a transition. In fighting, we usually retract the kick.
Originally posted by wolfen Where do you get the info about the Pong Lai group about the kicking? Clip or post? Referring to front kick in a form or just general exercise?
Personal experience. I’ve worked out with them and observed their forms and Tan Tui. When they execute a front kick, they do not re-chamber the kick but bring the foot down to the ground in an advancing step. I’m not saying this is the wrong way to execute the kick, I see very good application in it, it’s just not the way I was taught and I was weighing the various reasons for kicking this way.
With us it really depends on the situation, where your kicking your opponent, what type of kick, etc. We pretty much incorporate all of our traditional Wushu Kicks into our various forms. Not all in one form but they are all represented. Mainly with high energy gong fu you are going to be kicking rather hard, and if you can use lots of energy with your kicks you will break your toes, unless you specialize your toes for that method so in general on toe kicks we pull them back and use the ball of the foot. But again it depends on the situation and the attack spot. ie; under the chin I would use my toes, groin-toes, armpit-toes, innerthigh-toes, and so on. Chest and other hard areas we definately dont want to break our toes.
I think what we do which you would call rechambering is following the momentum of a snap kick by pulling our leg back to ready while using the momentum from the movement to perform another move. keeping fluid. we just dont classify it as rechambering. ie; retreating, countering and or defending. Of course once again, with our style, it depends on the situation and opponents methods.
The term “re-chambering” may be an issue of terminology. We pull the leg back to keep it from being caught, to cover and block a counter, to reap backward withthe momentum, to be able to throw a subsequent kick, or to transition to another technique. In my experience, to not do this will, more often than not, lead to the leg being caught or re-directed leading to an up-root of your opponent.
Not to say I always rechamber. I will often not with a front thrust kick and use the momentum to pull me inside their door so to speak.
Originally posted by SifuAbel
[B]Does that mean you kick and smear down on the opponent?
The “rechambering”, as you call it, is just part of the whip. It happens in one flow not as a separate movement. [/B]
Yes, “rechambering” sounds rather fancy. but i think everybody means the same thing. It’s just a question of how you let the leg drop.
So long as you pay attention with awareness what you are doing rather than just forgetting about it (losing awareness)and letting it drop.
The exercise i was talking about was sometimes do front kick then pause only letting foreleg drop and holding knee high. Then stepping and doing another kick. Done to develop balance and control and the leg muscle in holding the knee up.
Originally posted by Ming Yue
[B]JP has trained with us (Pong Lai) during a seminar last spring.
In some of our drills/forms, front kicks —either rising or push—drop straight down after full extension, heel first , to facilitate a transition. In fighting, we usually retract the kick. [/B]
Do you practice the exercise i mentioned?
Those drills must have specific application or specific to a form. I guess i’d jhave to see it. any particular name of a form?
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You are just doing Taiji mantis? Your GM Shi Zhengzhong knows four major styles so maybe your material might be from any of it?
Do you have any links or desc for “star kick”.
I previously learned/practiced this from the book but since lost the book. Looks like same artist as the link you posted.
From reading a previous post… Here’s the thing:
3 kicks:
1.swirling kick rising from ground (body lying on ground)
2.butterfly kick
3.tornado kick
Is there a difference between # 2 and # 3?
Number 1…mantis108 says he calls this a "tornado kick, masterkiller says “star kick”.
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Find the chinese names may help.
Originally posted by PangQuan ie; under the chin I would use my toes, .
Mantis has a kick comes up the chest and under the chin with heel of foot. This is especially for mantis because of the type of stretching Mantis does with the pull back stretch of the instep.
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I heard Pan Qing Fu used to put his foot against a tree and rest a 50 pound sack of some vegetables on top of his knee to help with this kick. I think i remember he showed it in a movie, grabbing both hands of opponent and kicking up under chin.
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I don’t know if this kick has a name.
Originally posted by wolfen
[B]Do you practice the exercise i mentioned?
Those drills must have specific application or specific to a form. I guess i’d jhave to see it. any particular name of a form?
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You are just doing Taiji mantis? Your GM Shi Zhengzhong knows four major styles so maybe your material might be from any of it? [/B]
we have motions similar to “little tiger swallow” throughout our material. I like it in sparring as a good setup for a throw.
we use the heel set down in some of our Tan Tui sets, in an 8 step mantis form, some plum blossom material, in a form we have with an eagle claw flavor, many things…
Our material draws from the strengths of all 4 systems.
