Then according to JKD philosophy of taking what’s useful, wouldn’t the internal stylist be as correct as the Jun Fan stylist? After all if the internal stylist finds that chi development helps him survive and win a fight better than doing stick and knife drills, whose to say he’s wrong? By his standards, JKD would be an incomplete art, a collection of techniques, an art that has done away with what’s useful to him. What JKD seems to say is “take what is useful only from the core of techniques from Dan, Paul and Burton and throw away the rest without fully exploring them”.
Number One: David that is not what I stated and if you are going to start putting words in my mouth to defend your style than I will respond no further. When did I say all other styles are useless? Please get your head out of your ass!
Rogue I know you have a weird urge to try to put JKD down but when we mean take what is usefull and discard the rest we are talking about what is in reality not fanatsy.
If a JKD guy wants to go out and learn chi development that is fine but most JKD guys I know think that is a massive waste of time and when it comes to any aspect of hand to hand combat that is where that quote is applied.
What my JKD school has over the other traditional schools that I have been to and seen is the training element. There is no trying to heat up your hands with chi or open blocked merdian sessions…it is about street fighting and survival self defense training and not dungeons and dragons.
You should stop trying to state that we follow Vu and Paul and Burton around like sheep because number one that is not even close to true and second it is played.
I could take the same route with your system and say that it has some of the worst training and realism in all of martial arts and that TKD is a sport and not about hard hitting street self defense but that is not my way and it would make for a gross generalzation on my behalf, just as you are making when you put all JKD guys into that generic reference point.
One could also make up things like you could not get through your JKD training because it was to creative and not as structured as you needed it to be.
By the way what does fighting have to do with this post and where did I say I got in a fight?
Well Paul Vunak was a little out there at one point in his life. I do know that he is into herbs, and natural medicine. I don’t know if he believes or developes chi though. I do know that most JKD guys are into things they consider practical, most are show me kinda guys. Here is a story I was told, whether it’s true or not I couldn’t tell you. When the SEALs first started looking for martial arts instructors they invited several along with inviting Paul Vunak to there base in San Diego. Anyways they told each martial artist to fight the largest SEAL there, if they were able to beat the SEAL, tey would get the Navy contract. Anyway Paul Vunak was the only one there that was able to beat the SEAL. An interesting story and it shows the type of mindset most JKD guys have. I know I am very much a show me kinda guy, if you can’t prove how effective you claim to be, then I don’t want to learn from you. I haven’t studied under a formal JKD instructor in a little over two years now, but every martial art I’ve taken up since then I have applied the same mindset too and I consider a part of my JKD experience whether it’s BJJ, Muay Thai, or Kali etc.-ED
“The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground…take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up…keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere…be ready and able to go everywhere.”-a mix martial artist
Whoa Black Jack, I’m not trying to put JKD down. I’ve never said it’s a bad style or ineffective. The last place I trained (also the first place I took JKD), before switching to a more traditional art was a JKD school run by one of those SEALs that Vu trained and the only thing wrong with it was it was a bit too pricey after a while, which is the reason that I left that JKD school.
Do I have a problem with JKD? Yes, but it’s purely philosophical. JKD is a style. It has a core curriculum that all the schools cover in pretty much the same manner. Lineage matters in JKD as much as in any CMA for legit instructors. But why can’t many JKD people admit it’s a style? I could be wrong, but tell me of one school or legit instructor who doesn’t trace his lineage back to Inosanto and follow the basic JKD curriculum. And if they don’t, what do they teach?
The question about how often you fight comes from the fact that you keep talking about fighting and how JKD is scientific street fighting. Are you in a bad neighborhood, work as a cop, a SEAL? Have you ever used your JKD in real life? Are you planning on looking for trouble so you can use it? So what are we training for? A situation that may or may not happen?
An internal stylist may gain more benefit in his every day life than you or I do from our arts that stress practical fighting.
Also I’d be the first to point out that most TKD schools bite the big Oscar Meyer.
Damn post service…I wanted to edit a few of my lines as they did nto come across the way iwanted to write them and the servie would not let me back in to fix the *****!
So I apologize for coming across to strong as it was that was just a quick first draft and not the one I wanted to post.
I agree with a number of things you say about JKD 100%. I think that a number of JKD schools can be off the wall in the terms of price and I am not the kind of guy who likes to pay $150 a month for lessions no matter what is being taught.
I also think that JKD in some circles has become on the verge of transforming into a eclectic set system…though a very effective one at that…a number of concept schools are very Kali focused and there is a reason for this as we have discussed in previous posts.
But at its heart JKD Concepts is just that a concept that is not limited to any style and anyone can use its methods…in fact I would say that more than have the people on this board including yourself follow the concept approach in spirit by crosstraining and using what is using for you.
Even at my JKD gym I have found certain defenses that I deem are not to my liking but hey you look for the truth where you can and I know that what I have learned can be applied to any art I now take or have taken to fit into the areas that I see fit as to what is street effective for me and what is not…be it kung fu, karate or kempo.
I have been in a number of fights before…I got through college as a RepoMan and it gave me all kinds of scary moments to think about.
I live in a very yuppy area and its in the burbs but I train as if I lived in the worst area of Chicago because no matter where you live you never know when the **** may hit the fan. Vunack has stated that you should train as if you were a prisoner in a maximum security state prison and that your life may always be on the line if you are not ready.
To me I think everyone should train as if it is for a life or death situation. As the old saying goes the more you bleed in training the less you will bleed in war or something like that.
We’re cool Black Jack. I tend to forget that tone of voice is sometimes lost on the keyboard. In regards to living in Yuppy land, my last fight was at a kids soccer game. The short version of the fight is I got eye jabbed, he accidently got hit by my forearm, tripped over my leg and went boom. The fight was pretty much knocked out of both of us in I’m guessing about 5 seconds. I ended up with two weeks of teary eyes, a runny nose and light sensitivity, from what I’m told he was on his back watching the clouds go by and bleeding from the mouth. So watch out for them darn yuppies, some of them have a bit of fight in them.
I wanted to add on the TKD aspect that I respect any person who trains hard and for a practical street self defense purpose as you most certainly do.
I know of a old school TKD guy here in Lombard that is a ex-korean military special forces combat instructor who is like a 8th degree black belt in a system of TKD and is just frigging fast with his hands and elbows.
The guy is about 58 years old and is in great shape and is just amazing to behold…I would bet there is not a ounce of fat on his body. The guy is all about kicking ass and there are no high kicks in the system and he realy trains the very neglected close quarter combat aspect of his style.
I would bet that this is because of the field striped verison of his system that was taught to the military at the time. His footwork had more of a alive energy to it…almost boxer like and he landed two body jabs on me and a elbow to the chest with very little work.
A guy like that no matter what the system just deserves respect and TKD could only hope to have more like him in its pasture.
As for the fight you had at the child sporting event…man that area of life is fast becoming a battle ground of nutball parents and rampant fist a cuffs between adults.
In Juptier FL, parents now have to pass a good behavior test to go the games!
So tell me, what great fighters did bruce fight
to prove the superiority of JKD. I know of one fight with Wong, which both sides claim victory with a third party who claim a draw. I know of a few nobodies challenging bruce to a fight on movie sets, which proved very little. So tell me what champions did bruce fight. I know of another little story where some buisiness men brought Bruce to a Tong in San Francisco in which Bruce met a shaolin master and backed down after trying to initiate a demonstration.
Ya know I like Bruce Lee’s movies too, but I do know how to separate the myth from the man.
