I have 2 of his Ba Gua tapes which I acquired in lots of other books and tapes on Ebay. I hate to talk badly abt people who I haven’t met, but the tapes were disapointing. The first 15 minutes of the tape is like an info-mercial on him. Once the tapes finally got to the materiel to be covered it to was not that impressive.
I give this opinion not so much as a martial artist, but as a consumer.
odd statement
“I was able to master the tai chi fan and im now learning snake from his video.”
Actually, the fan IS a traditional weapon. It was not an emphasized weapon but the original ones had spines of metal, a flip out pike at the end, and the spines were pointed - quite sharp, and made to look innocent with the fabric of the fan being silk and often extending beyond the spines a few inches.
Men would often do caligraphy on fans and exchange such as gifts so no one would really pay too much attention to a man with a fan..plus it was hot and fans served a purpose.
In many public places, it was expected that you would leave your weapons ..such as restaurants…not all but in many. So, if you were a famous martial artist, had to’check’ your weapon, it is not a bad idea to carry in a rather innocuous looking fan.
Fan techniques have some methods from dagger, some from straightsword, and some from short rod. The most useful techniques are with the fan closed…but open it can do a nasty cutting swipe. It can also be used to obscure vision and block. There are also techniques with the fan open where an opponent’s blade would penetrate the silk of the fan and then the fan would be closed and twisted to trap or break (much harder) the blade. This would of course require a metal fan.
It is NOT a mainstream weapon, but it is a traditional one. There are several fan routines around. however, I know nothing of Jiang’s fan tape or method.
Thanks, GLW! I stand corrected. I did some more research and found that “iron fans” were used for self-defense purposes in pre-Meiji and Meiji-era Japan as well.
As far as the fan routines currently out, such as the various “Taiji fan” and “Mulan fan” forms, few if any can be traced back more than a couple of decades. That at least is the information I get from a local wushu teacher out of Hangzhou. While the fan qualifies as a traditional weapon, the forms more frequently than not are modern wushu dance routines.
Just my opinion.
While the age of the routines is accurate, the flavor is not.
For example, Grandmaster Wang Jurong, daughter of Zha Quan Master Wang Ziping, created a system with 6 Fan routines in the last 30 or so years.
There are 3 Kung Fu Fan sets and 3 Taiji Fan sets. The 3 are divided as Single Fan, Double Fan, and Two Person Fan teaching the use of the techniques.
The Kung Fu Fan draws heavily on the Zha Quan system and is quite challenging…and has some good techniques for use.
The Taiji Fan is a routine that combines elements of Yang, Chen, Sun, and Wu styles of Taiji applied to fan. It is quite well constructed.
Having learned those and taken my students to competition with them, the common remark I heard was “That Fan routine has martial applications…a lot different from those other methods that are dance like…”
So, there are some sets out there that do have good roots.
The reason that there are not too many if any old routines around is that fan was always thought of as a secondary weapon and not worth the time to put a set together. After all, why use a fan if you have a sword?
I have seen one done where the person did a Fan and Broadsword…totally bogus in concept and in the way the routine was put together…the guy at one point even moved the fan to his right hand and the sword to the left - and used the fan as his primary weapon…what kind of garbage is that. I have a sword and a fan..you threaten me…which one will I use…hmmmmm let me think about that one…
Personally, if I lived in Houston in the summer, GLW, a fan routine is the first thing I would learn.
I would dearly love to study with Wang Jurong.
Yep…Taiji Fan or any Fan routine - the only weapon I have learned in 25+ years of study that lets me cool off while I am getting sweaty.
Madame Wang…what can I say…superb.
I studied directly with Jiang for just under a year (people are going to flame me now).
Though he’s pretty much a contemporary wushu stylist, he did teach me a lot about taiji and Push Hands. Jiang was not the right teacher for me, but he’s good at what he does.
Jiang is an interesting study in that he doesn’t manifest much power nor application but knows how to teach you to manifest power and application. Everything I learned in taiji/push hands I learned from Jiang - and there was quite a bit that I DIDN’T learn.
Every now and then, I’ll drop by Jiang’s school to say hello to him and his wife.
I train a completely different style now, but they are still nice to me and I address him as “Sifu” whenever I see him.
What is master?
I have seen martial artist that appear like this Jiang Jian-ye before. For the record, I have not seen any of his video’s. I do not think this would tell me much anyway. However, I have seen pictures of him performing postures and I question these. For example, in the current Tai Chi magizine, in a picture titled “Xingyi Quan :step forward and punch (Beng Chaun)” he appears to be performing a drilling fist while in a semi-dragon stance. (what’s the problem?) the the dragon stance is dirrectly used for projecting jing downward, not upwards! Although you can do a drilling fist while in a dragon stance it would be like trying to do an uppercut while squating. (it defeats the purpose). Again he could be just steping forward with a scissor step but he’s not doing Beng Quan!( heart of his fist is clearly rotated up towards the sky in a Zhuan Quan type application)
Although, the picture could be mislabled.
Yet, when I look at another one of his posture titled: “Yang style: brush knee and push” his stance looks way to low to be of any use in a martial application.
He has to much of a Wushu look to his postures for me.
I had some experience with a Wushu artist before. They judge their mastership on how they perform the form, not on applications (I’ve posted about this before, it concerned a certain Yang stylist with a very high linage)
People like this look good on the outside but have nothing martial inside. They usally hide behind the fact they only teach for health purposes.
However, I don’t truly believe this is bad.
One of the reasons why I’ve concintrated my studies on Xingyiquan is for the health benifits.
But, I believe its a “quasi-by product” of the martial side and not the other way around as some would have you believe.
Again there is no way a person can master even a little of what he claims to have studied, so it must be in a Wushu context that he’s talking about (forms only etc…)
Paul
Michigan
:eek:
beng quan
the posture he was in was in the changing movements of bengquan. the changing movements are done when you are changing directions. they used to confuse me too when i would see them. they’re done so you can start out in san ti before going in a different direction, i believe.
i should get that new issue. didn’t know it was out yet.
p.s. i haven’t seen any of his videos, but he looks like he has good form, even if it does look a bit wushu-ish. i’m a bit partial to him, though, because his video boxes look neat. they really bring to life tai chi magazine. the “snake boxing” box is my favorite box of all. just look at it and try to tell yourself that you don’t want to buy it.
Beng Chuan
Then his posture must be from a Shanxi type system.
I’ve studied Hubei style for 15 yrs+ and their is no scissor step turn in my style’s Beng Quan. There is however scissor steping in other places like the five element boxing routine etc…
But, I did consider he was probably performing another style’s posture. However his rotated fist still looks like a drilling fist to me and not a Beng Quan.
This is what really caught my eye in the picture, i.e. being labeled as “Beng Quan”
To each thier own I guess…
Paul
Michigan
Drill Drill Drill
It looks like Drilling to me too!! I think (hope) the photo is mislabled. I think (hope) he’s stepping back in transition with a Drilling fist, and will then switch to a San Ti (right foot foward) and a right fisted Beng. I think I saw Liang Shou Yu do this in his tape. Oh and the photo of brush Knee and Push looks alittle odd too!!??!!?? Looks too low?? Maybe it’s the angle of the photo thats throwing me off. hmmmmmm?
Shout out to Blacktaoist!!!
clear up
let me clear up a couple of things that mite have confused people first I was able to learn a fan form from jiang jian ye videos but it was also easy for me because i had been doing tai chi and many tai chi weapons over a long period so his fan video came easy to me.I’m not saying everybody can learn from a video i just happen to be talented to learn from and improve it.As far the snake boxing its a similar situation i learned a snake fist form but again it wasnt so hard because once again im talented and i had exposed to wushu before.I able it is possible to learn from videos especially his but again
ITS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL I AS AN INDIVIDUAL AM ABLE TO LEARN AND BECOME VERY GOOD AT IT AND IT DOES NOT MEAN EVERYBODY ELSE SHOULD ATTEMPT THIS.
Jian-Ye Tapes
He is a good dancer/choreographer. I can’t believe one person can know all those forms from all those different styles.
Damian
He’s not just good, he’s a MASTER at dance/choreography of the kung fu sort.
how could someone master all those arts at that age i mean he couldnt be older that mid 40s even if he didnt master them how could you get that many teachers to teach you the chinese system of how they let students learn is very strict if you were already under the tutalage of a master a nother one isnt going to accept you. Its obvious that he doesnt know what he is doing. A few months ago he had tapes of falun gong i know that the falun gong people wouldnt teach you if you had been a master at other internal arts plus if you already know chi kung. Dont waist your money
not saying I am a complete beliver but…
Like most people here I have looked at all the advertisements by Jian-Ye and wondered how he could do all that. I noticed several postures that did not appear correct to me so I was very leary.
However, I recently had a chance to take a couple of seminars with him at a conference he was at. He is very good. I have not seen a person that fit in a long time. He is fast flexible and solid on the basics. He also doesn’t portray himself as a Master of all those forms, just a master calligrapher. He stated that what he does is research on a particular form. He learns from several teachers, reads, talks, listens, and then presents what he thinks is the most accurate form he can.
He was a very humble man but spoke honestly. After talking to him I understood better where he is coming from and see his variations in form as just that. Each of our teachers changes the form a little to suit body and energy needs.
Hope this helps.
Sho Pi
..
i think of him more as a librarian of forms. someone who has good form already, learns a form, and then teaches it to the best of his ability. nowhere did he ever state that he was a master of any of these styles. from what i’ve seen of his form, though, it looks like he performs the forms well. again, he teaches form and sometimes applications as stated in the descriptions of his videos, but no more. preconceptions, people? again, maybe i’m biased because they give tai chi magazine a colorful, neat look, and because the boxes look really cool. is that really so wrong, though?
if we didn’t have him around, we wouldn’t have a big library of tapes to look at for reference. also, if a style died out, we could look back to his tapes for reference, to see what exactly it looked like. we’re lucky to have him around. i, for one, am still captivated by the little pictures of the video covers. especially that “snake boxing” one. the colors on it, and the balance of the picture are done very well.
besides, maybe someday you’ll want to learn a wushu form just for fun. i know someday i’d like to. not go overboard, or learn a few, but one would be interesting. 
All right, as long as he isn’t presenting himself as a master of all these styles, and his videos aren’t claiming to be more than introductions to a style, then I can appreciate his effort at documenting CMAs.
Jiang Jianye
This thread looks dead, but whatever. I am one of Jiang’s kungfu students. I hope I can clarify. He teaches mainly taichi as this is his favorite. However, he also instructs us kungfu. He focuses on beauty rather than application. He teaches us the art not necissarily the martial. This can sometimes be dissapointing, but I like it. He knows Tai chi and kungfu well. He studies mostly modern when he was younger, so his traditional may not be fully developed, also, he is not as young as he used to be. This does not mean he is a bad teacher. As far as his videos, I’ve only seen his Lohan and Snake boxing forms, and they were pretty good. Hope that was educational!