[QUOTE=ginosifu;1136973]YouKnowWho:
Again I disagree with your analysis that there is no complete systems. Northern Shaolin (Gu Ru Zhang lineage) has everything anyone will ever need in a Martial pursuit.
It has one of the largest repertoire of kicks known to MA.
It has the 108 Techniques (Throws) of Shaolin. Similar to the 108 locks of the Eagle Claw style.
A comprehensive Chin Na and grappling system.
A REALLY in depth Chi Gung system.
Weapons for those wanting an in depth knowledge in that field.
Hung Gar is in a close second. Likewise they everything you will need to fighting: Kick, punch, grab and throw + Iron Wire for Chi Gung and all the weapons training you need..
I don’t know what systems you have encountered, but if they don’t have it all, it’s probably not the system but the teacher. Sometimes people don’t finish the systems and go off on their own with out finishing the system.
The only system I have that was not complete was Yang Tai Chi, but that was not the system, it was the teacher, he only had so much information and that was it. I had to go out and learn from other teachers to complete my Tai chi.
Shuai Chiao is even a complete system. After learning all they could from GM Chang, my teacher hooked up with his Grandson (David Chang), for a more in depth system. David Chang works with head of the Taiwan police organization in his city and noted for teaching police capture and control methods.
ginosifu
I don’t see where you need
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
My question is, what constitutes having learned a complete system? IMO, it would mean having a solid understanding and the ability to apply a given system’s principles/skills in one’s own natural and versatile way, including a wide enough range of skills. That would be my take in a nutshell.
Or does it mean having learned all the potential forms, weapons, etc., in a given system? CLF is an extremely versatile system, but if you combine its various lineages, it has over 100 forms. Nobody has time to learn, much less practice 100 forms, and you don’t need that anyway.
In our own lineage, there is an excellent system in applying its principles, but there is SO much information just in skills applications alone. You develop the ability to use a wide range of skills, but you can’t absorb and use it all equally, and you’re not really expected to. You can learn over such a wide range, but because people differ, so will many of the skills they absorb. Although they’re all guided by the same basic principles. Under pressure, only so much from each category of skills can come out, anyway. You’re mostly expected to learn so much if you’re planning to be an instructor, which I was for a time. Now that I no longer teach, I only train those aspects that suit or interest me.
I have heard that Cha Chuan traditionally has ten forms, but that few masters of that art had ever learned all ten. Does that mean they aren’t complete, even if those masters had developed a deep understanding of and ability to fight with the skills they’ve mastered? Or would somebody who maybe has learned/practiced all of a given system’s material, but never developed the ability to use it in an instinctive way?
