Having sparred with a black belt status YangStyle practitioner a number of times in my early days I would say most definitely. You may have to initiate offensively for the most part but try not to get battered too badly doing so. (numbing your limbs targeting pressure points). I guess the fight’s over since both of my arms are numb and only one leg to stand on, other one numb. “Hey let’s go to the park and watch the grass grow”. No thanks, I’d rather go to the park and watch the Yang Style Taiji people working out. Who was teaching YangStyle (Chinese Master) on the island of Oahu, Honolulu, Hawaii in the late 70’s early 80’s? Got to know 2 of his students in the States back then.
Yeah, I think Taiji is more striking than Chin Na / grappling. Like Crane style, Taiji practitioners don’t like being handled or having their feathers ruffled, (disadvantage) thus striking out to keep opponent at a distance. Rush in on them and they will dodge while targeting your vitals.
Taiji can be different things depending on how much your teacher knows about it or how much he wants to teach. Using the moves in the form for defining what taiji should be is wrong as the form is just for building the connections. The combat part of taiji starts from push hands and a wide range of both grappling and striking is covered there. In case your teacher is openly teaching after learning tingjin in different types of basic push hands he should gradually add qinna, grappling and striking(punch, elbow, shoulder, knee, …) in the PH. When I trained my teacher used to choose the techniques we wanted to work on in push hands. This is a training method and after some time it will become sanshou. What taiji tries to do is to develop tingjin, smooth body movements and it never limits the techniques you want to use as long as they are effective.
[QUOTE=xinyidizi;1240745]Using the moves in the form for defining what taiji should be is wrong as the form is just for building the connections. [/QUOTE]
If we apply this standard (there are more besides the forms) on all TCMA styles then no style can be defined. Of course besides forms, we can have drills. Since those drills were not officially recorded, we don’t know what they may be.
If you’ve ever been hit by my Sifu’s fist, palm, wrist, or even finger strikes you’d know it is a striking art :eek: and those are all in our first form, tai chi jeung (mor wan jeung) :D. Advanced class is used to teach the applications of the form with partners doing drills with each other that include strikes, kicks and chin na.
And then there is push hands, and after that the daggers come out…
It depends one one’s sense awareness; e.g., the move twin peaks to ears conceals a head butt. Some of those applications start to change when taken through a simple 90 degree rotation. Grappling starts to appear, as well as throws.
You can’t get the right answer if you ask the wrong question
ALL CMA is supposed to be “ti da shuai na”
So all are supposed to have striking and grappling
Clearly, too many CMA have lost all their wrestling
Clearly, Taiji has lost its way…
Bawang is correct, Taiji root is in standard “long fist” of the north… and theory is just stolen from General Qi’s books - OH (edit) he took away his informative post to put up something stupid, oh well…
But “push hands” is basic practice, and real push hands is wrestling
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1240774] OH (edit) he took away his informative post to put up something stupid, oh well…
[/QUOTE]
beucase john wang made this thread like 200 times. chen taichi salute shows exactly where it came from, its a taizu longfist salute
when tai chi people insist tensing up muscles is forbidden, and say punching is external, what else can you say, the conversation is over before it started like an aborted fetus
when tai chi families lift weight in secret and say they got big from swallowing air, what dialogue can there be
But “push hands” is basic practice, and real push hands is wrestling
What do you mean by real PH?
PH is a training method for learning tingjin and teaching both grappling and striking as well as neutralizing basics in a controlled environment. After that it’s about sanshou.
[QUOTE=xinyidizi;1240782]What do you mean by real PH?
PH is a training method for learning tingjin and teaching both grappling and striking as well as neutralizing basics in a controlled environment. After that it’s about sanshou.[/QUOTE]
push hands is an exercise where two people push each other.
I agree with Master Ken. In America - Tai Chi is only for sissies and old people. If you’re 10 and practicing tai chi, you’re a sissy - if you’re 70 and practicing tai chi, you’re obviously old… and a sissy.
30-something years ago a student of Guang Yi Ren showed me a video of push hands competitions in Chen village. I said “cool” now THAT makes sense and looks like the real stuff… at the time, silly me, I thought it was just a matter of time until Americans saw this and realized martial arts are actually about martial arts
30 years later, I still see Americans saying “those Chen village people don’t know taiji” :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=bawang;1240786]push hands is an exercise where two people push each other.[/QUOTE]
Basic PH is for tingjin and is like a blueprint. Other things like controlled striking and Qinna can also be practiced on that foundation. For example while we were doing PH my teacher would punch or Qinna me without using much power. Now if I could neutralize it I would continue the PH or if I couldn’t he wouldn’t continue his attack and would continue the PH.
“Hey let’s go to the park and watch the grass grow”. No thanks, I’d rather go to the park and watch the Yang Style Taiji people working out. Who was teaching YangStyle (Chinese Master) on the island of Oahu, Honolulu, Hawaii in the late 70’s early 80’s? Got to know 2 of his students in the States back then.
