Thankyou you’re right. Wing Chun is by far a superior style to 8 step mantis.
It is important not to take up too much space as there is less room for every one in this world as the population increase. What foresight those wing chun masters had when they developed the style.
I love the 6 gate theory. If only we have 6 arms -each arm to guard a gate
Like southern mantis, wing chun practitioners don’t move around too much. But I’m sure with 6 flapping arms, your gates will be well guarded and you won’t inadvertantly get yourself lost from hopping like those N mantis practioners
I mean how stupid must one be to look for an opening to throw a punch. First and foremost, is to adhere to the concepts underpinning the style. Otherwise you just won’t be hitting your opponents the right way (the honorable way)!
Truth is in the eye of the beholder.I had a friend who took wing chun and northern praying mantis and he favored mantis( I think).Doesn’t matter what style it is north,south,east,west,internal,external if it works for you well then style isn’t that of a big deal.
I’ve seen southern mantis,don’t know how it works exaclty though, but I thought the forms were pretty cool.I’m not sure wich type of southern mantis it was.The guy was from Henry Poo Yee’s school.Does anyone know what s. mantis style it is?
You don’t “Wait for that one punch” you make the openings, use intry techniques to close distance, move with the hand changes. Wing Chun is also great, I just think it’s pathetic that after 2 years you had no idea to use it.
put it this way. I can be as hostile as I like to Wing Chun and Southern Mantis because the styles are crap. But I won’t -i’ll be nice.
Although Southern stylist have hardened their hands and feet through silly conditioning exercises (oops did I say silly oh well), they are still people with feelings and can be hurt easily. i do feel pity for all those who have wasted their years of training on things like Bork Choy.
By the way, I’m a spastic in a wheel chair and I have mastered Southern Mantis and teach Bork Choy to students willing to pay. I’m so happy that there are silly people in this world (oops did I say silly - sincere apologies for all those who think they are smart) LOL
Let’s end it this way on a positive note. Southern mantis is a great style and so is wing chun. Northern mantis is also a very rich style.
How you see one sifu interpret a style may not necessarily be another sifus interpretation.
My point in my earlier post is that there’s a certain maturity level in s. mantis and wc practioners because they are not lured in by the weapons and forms. Not to say that all northern mantis people were lured in by forms and weapons but it’s just common sense. A teenager wouldn’t look at a wc form and go " WOW! I WANT TO LEARN THAT!" However, the teenage may see a northern mantis guy doing a set and say, " Cool, I want to learn that."
I want to make clear i am looking from a Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun view, which is different traditional Wing Chun (Yip Man)…
When I was a student in 8 step mantis we did a lot of forms and two man drills. We learned alot of joint locks, perry, blocks, throws and we did a lot of endurances. They all work but let me give you a couple examples of what problems i came to in applications..
For someone of my size (5’6") its not practical to grab, because I will most likely not be a able to grab a person twice my size by the wrist or root and have total control. And in 8 step there is a lot of grabbing.
Stealing hand techneq- takes too much time (too many movements)according to wing chuns time and space concept. Moving too much and bouncing around can become a loss of time and unstable for a WC practicioner.
There is no fighting stance other that you make one yourself, which to me looks like boxing from what i have seen from my teachers stance. As in WC we have a proper way of standing (asking hand postition) and intercepting anything you can throw. (this is where 6 gate theory comes in)
These are some of the snares i have run into when trying this method on a wing chun opponent.
I think 8 step is a very good style but its not right for me and i believe it would take a longer time to learn how to fight with this style rather than Wing chun, because there are so many forms to know before you get to the applications.. it takes a while. it may be different in other kwoons though, i dont know.
But you know i did learn alot there on how to throw many different punches, kicks, joint locks, etc..in that aspect it is awsome because i can throw some punches that the average person knows nothing about. that is fun.
I cant think of anything else to say right now, but hope this make me a little more clear..
Bye
I do not wish to fig
[This message was edited by BFD on 04-12-01 at 12:42 PM.]
BFD - Just a comment on your last email on this topic - You probally haven’t taken 8step long enough. Just to illustrate;
size doesn’t matter in kung fu -
You need to use the techniques that works for you, eventually, you should be able to pull off all the techniques of the system - maybe some better than others but all . Case in point, the grand master of 8step is probally shorter than you.You can’t grab sombody’s wrist? then use your height to your advantage duck under the punch and counter to the ribs.Just because the counter doesn’t abide to the exact order of operations that an 8 step tech would have, doesn’t mean that it isn’t 8 step, or you are not a practicioner of 8 step.If you worked on all the grabbing/strength/speed drills grabbing should be easy.
You’re just clueless about 8 step mantis and northern systems in general.
On the point of grappling, just like the punch or what ever appendage of the body it uses, the movement is based on underlying principals common to all. Either you’ve got a rotten sifu who isn’t teaching the right stuff or you haven’t had time to understand the concepts properly.
You don’t need to learn 108 ways to grapple or 128 kicking techniques + 64 deadly throws or what ever. The response should be purely stimulus driven - you just do because it is the efficient thing to do. If you try remembering techniques you’ll never be a competent martial artist.
On the point of stances: There are a finite set of stances which set the parameters of movement. Of course in a real fight you don’t see fixed stances because you’re constantly moving and adjusting and so is you opponent (you would think). Don’t get confused with boxing.
Length of training: Much quicker to learn northern kung fu than it is to learn southern kung fu.
About Wing Chun: In my opinion it is a crap style. But you’re right on one point. You can see the good-ole fixed stance. Wing Cun practitioners are so stiff and funny in their movements. The funniest thing of all is that some practitioners actually take themselves seriously. I feel sorry for them.
Ego
You really go low to call a system you dont even know about “crap”. Just that statment makes you ignorant. I never said 8 step was a bad style, I said I dont prefer it for MYSELF.
And at least I should have the right to comment my points of view about a style i was taking for 2 years, thank you. Let me say it again, 8 step is a GOOD style, but for myself I prefer Wing Chun, it makes more sense to me…
Did you understand that?
Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai Has a lineage of famous proven fighters.
Li Siem See
Lam Sang See
Wong Yu Kung
These men were incredible and feared as well as revered. This is not to say southern is better that northern.
You’re right. Wing Chun does have its good points. The school which I used to visit put on spectecular lion dancing during Chinese New Year. Their 2 man drills are also very clean and well rehersed.
Whereas, if you learn Northern Kung Fu, you’ll probably get none of the above. What you learn is how to fight - but maybe that’s not what you’re going for.
You probably prefer the fancy uniforms and occasional trips to the local Chinese restaurant with the senior students and sifu.
Ok whatever…i am not going to insult you back, just tell you the facts as they are bub..
Unlike the wing chun your used to SEEING, fancy uniforms and stuff like that, we only have basic tee shirts and sweats with a logo and just until now wear a sash. I dont even know why we ware a sash though. Must be because we just went public or something. In 8 step we had to ware unforms and sash. it was more like a belt race there, always trying to get through the forms so i could get to how to use them in applictions.
One with 2 roots becomes a stronger tree..
I do not wish to fight
[This message was edited by BFD on 04-15-01 at 10:14 AM.
[This message was edited by BFD on 04-15-01 at 10:17 AM.
[This message was edited by BFD on 04-15-01 at 10:17 AM.]
Ego–BFD is telling the truth, Wing Chun makes sense compare to many styles of kungfu, of course you need to let go of your BIG EGO before you can see the truth behind the great art of WING CHUN,
just my 2 cents, no need to get mad and please look up the yellow pages to call your local Wing Chun schools and try for a month , then tell me about it…
Oh those schools you mentioned had too much southern influence. Back in the days when Tsing Mo association was started, the number of forms proliferated in many nothern systems and become Southernized in HK.
I’m new and wish to say " hi " to everyone. i’ve been studying TCM for many years, IMO, i do think southern fists might be a little more practical comparing to many northern kung fu. Ooop…Ooop… i dont wish to fight.
