[QUOTE=bawang;1099676]u guys need a good beating to make u see clearly. it feels like ur suddenly sober.
i bet some of u havent got ur ass beat in 20 years.[/QUOTE]
some of us are that good :p. maybe you should train harder.
hey if works… actually i’d combined the striking clothesline with a tripping/sweeping leg.
hahah so do we. its all good.
When I am wearing MMA shots I am doing MMA, when I am wearing my MT shorts I am doing MT and when I wear my kung fu jammies, I am doing Kung Fu.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1099640] maintaining their art …[/QUOTE]
There are ways to do something. But there is a better way to do somthing.
When you train your longfist roundhouse kick, oneday you saw a TKD guy did his roundhouse kick better than you, you change your rounghouse kick by using the TKD method. Later on you saw a MT guy did roundhouse kick better than you, you change your TKD roundhouse kick by using the MT method. Do you give up your longfist style? No! You just improve your longfist style by changng ineffective training method into effective training method.
100 years later your longfist system will have roundhouse kick as effective as the MT system. Will that be nice?
Not all foreign stuff are better. Today I still prefer my TCMA “neck surrounding” instead of boxing hook punch. I still prefer my double heads instead of the modern bench pressing, …
When I am wearing MMA shots I am doing MMA, when I am wearing my MT shorts I am doing MT and when I wear my kung fu jammies, I am doing Kung Fu.
thats why i prefer the old T SHIRT and Gung FU pants. No Jammies. MC HAMMER had good gung fu pants LMAO
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1099643]“I can turn out a good fighter in a shorter amount of time,”
so therefore, are the other skills simply not worth training?
Is it evolution? Is Kung-Fu evolving, or devolving?[/QUOTE]
The path of a fighter is different from the path of a TCMA teacher. A fighter is not someone who knows everything, but who can do few things good.
You can
- write a book for 400 moves.
- make a video tape for 200 moves.
- teach your student for 100 moves,
- demo for 50 moves,
- fight for 10 moves.
There are “door guarding skills” that you need to train daily. There are “general skills” that you may only need to train every other day.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1099706]thats why i prefer the old T SHIRT and Gung FU pants. No Jammies. MC HAMMER had good gung fu pants LMAO[/QUOTE]
Hammer time !
I train with shorts and t-shirt, I can’t recall the last time I used a Gi ( It was BJJ class years ago) and I have a Kung Fu Top that I have, but use it only when I am at the bar-b-que and the steaks need the special something !
I have a yellow jumpsuit for doing jkd.
[QUOTE=KC Elbows;1099710]I have a yellow jumpsuit for doing jkd.[/QUOTE]
Take it easy Uma.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1099711]Take it easy Uma.[/QUOTE]
I bow to your witty pop culture reference.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1099640]the overhand is basically cup-choy,… proper method of using their techniques.[/QUOTE]
Quote this from SC master David C. K. Lin:
- The name of the move is not important (you may call it whatever that you want).
- There is no standard for each move (you can modify it to fit your body type).
My teacher’s “front cut” was a direct vertical downward motion. David’s “front cut” starts with horizontal spinning motion (he had integrated his “leg break” into his “front cut”). Both my teacher’s “front cut” and David’s “front cut” are equal effective in combat.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1099640]not quite sure how to phrase this, so bear with me..
TCMAists who fight or train fighting-MMA, etc will say that the overhand is basically cup-choy, the long hook is sow choy, jab is jik, cross is ping, uppercut is jong, or pow.
But..is it, or isn’t it?
There are two ways to look at this; one could be simply justifying that they are still doing Kung-Fu, when they have actually dropped it completely, including footwork, positioning, strategies, etc. “trapping doesn’t work in real time,” etc..
or, they really are maintaining their art, and simply have a better understanding of how to effectively utilize their style’s techniques from having used it in real time.
Is it evolution, or are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Face it, there are many people who train and TEACH TCMA-not all have actually been taught the proper method of using their techniques.
Are there subtle nuances that distinguish cup from overhead, sow from hook? Do they work, or are they dropped?
Is the moi-fa, chut-sing, kay-lun, seu bo faht, dropped, or do you use it?[/QUOTE]
Hi Ten…keepin’ the mafia 6’ underground with your badself eh? Love you man!
Anyway, to answer you’re question…I done both and kinda fit this mold and I say IMO: <<< ISN’T >> … the same IE.
Just as an example…if Cup choi is like knocking on a door, how is an overhand right even remotely similar, it’s just wishfull thinking.
I think your comment about people " justifying " carries wieght and is probably true for some.
- What I think is also a possibility is that those TCMA who havn’t Finished their training to a high enough level of skill and therefore:
- Result they gave up and switched to MMA.
** My research has taught me that it’s very easy to learn enough martial arts to get into trouble…but very difficult to be skilled enough to get out of it. It is one of the defining goals for anyone who really wants to be self defense applicable.
***How about this observation…“not everyone is cut out to be a high Level martial artist” It’s just a fact of life. Just like I have a very poor musical ear and could never play an instrument. I just accept it and move on.
Can I ask why you are asking this question when everyone should know that there is a clear separation between SELF Defense Skills and Sport.
So my point is that there isn’t a need to say…" well this is kinda like that"
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1099716]Quote this from SC master David C. K. Lin:
- The name of the move is not important (you may call it whatever that you want).
- There is no standard for each move (you can modify it to fit your body type).
My teacher’s “front cut” was a direct vertical downward motion. David’s “front cut” starts with horizontal spinning motion (he had integrated his “leg break” into his “front cut”). Both my teacher’s “front cut” and David’s “front cut” are equal effective in combat.[/QUOTE]
Customizing a MA to what works for you?
Go peddle crazy somewhere else, we’re all stock up here !!
“So my point is that there isn’t a need to say…” well this is kinda like that"
yep, and yet people often do.
My point in asking is just my own musings, I guess.
Thanx for the intelligent response. Refreshing after wading through three pages of mostly bull****.
Getting caught up on whether or not Cantonese phrases are used rather than English detracts from the point of the conversation, which is of technique, not semantics.
Unlike many non-Chinese who study TCMA, I never really put much stock in the HK Chop-socky movies, other than for entertainment value. In fact, I think the Martial Arts in most of them sucked, and the choreography was pathetic. They were certainly not my inspiration for learning Kung-Fu.
(funny, but Kato was! I was 11 yrs old at the time. Now, I watch those Green Hornet reruns, and I wonder what it was that I found so awesome. Well, compared to what everyone else was doing at the time, I guess BL had the awesome…)
I think that it is very natural for us to see what we do in what others do if it kind of looks the same.
It is also very natural for what we do to look like “something” else when there is no point of reference.
Having been exposed to many MA, I see more similarities than I ever see differences.
I think that unless one has a ******* for keeping a MA so pure that it is one step removed from an immaculate conception, that differences aren’t really there and that is a good thing.
we may learn and keep or hone in just a few moves or techniques
and the rest is for academic interests.
do we have to practice all the techniques or all the forms all the time?
not really.
unless of course, you are linage holders and have to teach all to all.
etc etc.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1099640]not quite sure how to phrase this, so bear with me..
TCMAists who fight or train fighting-MMA, etc will say that the overhand is basically cup-choy, the long hook is sow choy, jab is jik, cross is ping, uppercut is jong, or pow.
But..is it, or isn’t it?
There are two ways to look at this; one could be simply justifying that they are still doing Kung-Fu, when they have actually dropped it completely, including footwork, positioning, strategies, etc. “trapping doesn’t work in real time,” etc..
or, they really are maintaining their art, and simply have a better understanding of how to effectively utilize their style’s techniques from having used it in real time.
Is it evolution, or are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Face it, there are many people who train and TEACH TCMA-not all have actually been taught the proper method of using their techniques.
Are there subtle nuances that distinguish cup from overhead, sow from hook? Do they work, or are they dropped?
Is the moi-fa, chut-sing, kay-lun, seu bo faht, dropped, or do you use it?[/QUOTE]
I think we need to look at it a bit differently. Today’s Martial Arts practitioner is not the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago. People tend to think of MA as a hobby or past time. They go to Kung Fu class or MMA gym a couple of times a week and when they go home they already forgotten anything that they have learned in class.
Modern schools including MMA and Kung Fu teach basic techniques such as Jab / Cross / Hook / Round Kick / Front Kick etc etc. But we fail to realize is these are just foundational techniques. MMA schools focus on these basic tactics and don’t really move on to more complex or sophisticated techniques. However, most of the older traditional Kung Fu schools move on to the more complex techniques.
Lets give an example: HOOK PUNCH
A hook punch is a hook punch right?.. NO, there are more complex versions such as in Shaolin or Monkey we have what is called “Lam Choi”, Squeezing or Hugging punch. It looks something like a hook punch to the naked eye but there is a different energy in the strike if you will. Lam Choi = start off like a hook but as reach the target, whip your fist back towards yourself. This whipping or snapping energy is different than a straight hook punch.
To answer you question… MMA guys are doing MMA stuff. There techniques not anything more than modified basics. And there overhand is not Cup Choi… it’s an over hand.
ginosifu
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1099753] Lam Choi = start off like a hook but as reach the target, whip your fist back towards yourself. [/QUOTE]
you punch yourself in the face?
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1099753] MMA schools focus on these basic tactics and don’t really move on to more complex or sophisticated techniques. [/QUOTE]
kung fu guys want to build a tower without the foundation. how you build the third floor without building the first floor.
*stroke beard
[QUOTE=bawang;1099755]kung fu guys want to build a tower without the foundation. how you build the third floor without building the first floor.
*stroke beard[/QUOTE]
With Qi™ of course.
Duh.