[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1044577]Well, the palm is the palm of your hand, a PART of your hand.
Other parts include the fingers, back, wrist, and both sides.
So, since we condition MORE than JUST the palm surface, Iron palm, though the popular terms, is more technically correct as iron HAND.[/QUOTE]
Actually the iron palm extends from the neck to the finger tips:D
ginosifu
For the traditional kung fu teacher, whether out of your garage or in the park, how do you get your students to follow thru with diligent IP practice?
LOL this is the million dollar question. Have you heard the lead a horse to water story???
I teach only 2 days a week, my students are instructed by me to practice at least 2 of the days they are not in class, a fair goal I feel.
However when tues comes around and I review what they praticed… well lets just say I re-teach them the same thing over again.
This is OK for most people in MA today are into it for thier own reasons and thats kweel, however I would say about 1% of MA’s this is their life.
You cannot expect more or you will be disappointed. I have been teaching since 1996 and have not taught IP to anyone…
I believe I read somewhere years ago that IP training was traditionally in preparation for a vendetta type confrontation where the practitioner was bound by honor to take care of business on behalf of his family. Thruth? Otherwise it was not considered to be a common practice among the masses. Even though I prefer palmstrikes before punches, I don’t practice IP as I also can’t afford injury to hands do to occupation. Admire those who do, though.
Palmstriker…
I am not sure about the vendetta story. Iron Palm is one of many types of skills that were practiced thru out China. Not every teacher knew IP, so not everyone learned it. However, certain groups or sects excelled at IP, so it was more popular in some areas than others.
ginosifu
We have iron palm in the Ziranmen system.
Zi Ran Men training can be divided into three components : Physical Training, Combat Techniques and Conditioning. Obviously the iron palm falls under the conditioning catagory of which there are a further 6 methods.
This is in order to strengthen your muscles, bones and tendons, and make the body resiliant to attack. It should be stressed that in Ziranmen this conditioning is not intended to cause any harm to your body. Hard force is never utilised during this type of training. Below are the 7 methods.
Mother and Son Ball
Here two iron balls are used, one 8kg and the other 10kg for conditioning the hands. You should train twice a day, gradually increasing you power, qi and repetitions. Do not use hard force. Here the practitioner would assume horse stance and practice lifting, catching, pushing, pointing, and drilling the balls with their fingers.
Tiger Mouth Stick
Using a piece of wood approximately 7 inches long and 3 to 4 inches wide with rounded ends, the practioner practices by grabbing with the stick both hands and twisting them against each other, in both directions.
Iron Hand Training
Fill a deep wok or pan (or bag filled with beans) with dried green beans, asssume horse stance and spear the hands into the beans up to the wrists. Repeat 36 times, twice a day, replacing the beans as they split. After a year, mix in 50% yellow beans and continue training. After another six months, add 50% sand, finally switching to 100% sand at the end of the second year. From here on, you can gradually mix iron pellets into the sand.
Brass Ring Training
Starting with two rings on each arm, the hands are held at the hips in an ‘eagle claw’ shape, palms up. The arms are alternately extended straight forward, with the palm facing away from you at the end of the outward movement. Add one ring per arm per month, up to a maximum of 32 rings. The rings themselves are 0.5kgs each and about 1.1 inches thick.
Eagle Claw Stance
Eagle claw standing meditation is practiced in order to train your qi. If you practice diligently, you should be able to reach your goal within 3 years. Everyday after stretching, stand with your arms outstretched at shoulder height, like a birds wings. Your eyes should be half closed and focused on the tip of your nose. Gently lock the teeth together, touch your tongue to the roof of your mouth and count your breaths. Gradually increase the duration of standing until you reach an hour. To finish, exhale and drop your arms to your sides. Slowly open your eyes. You can also do this with the rings.
Basket Walking
The purpose of basket walking is to train your body in ‘lightness skill’. This makes your body act and feel as if it is extremely light and agile. Using a bamboo basket weighing 4.5kg, you fill it with 100kg of peebles.Balance on the basket and start to walk around it, grabbing the rim with alternate hands as you step. Every 19 days, remove 1.5-2.5kg of pebbles until only 15kg of pebbles are left. At this stage, remove only one pebble per day until the basket is empty. Once you are at a higher level you can work the rings into this exercise also - this is very tough.
My master has also mentioned that we have some iron body or shirt, but I have not seen any of that at this stage, still got a truck load to chew on…all this will do me for a life time im tipping.
The Ziranmen approach to iron palm is always never to let the hands become disfigured in anyway but to keep them soft, its the iron wrapped in cotton idea.
Another intresting thing my master mentioned in relation to this was that Ziranmen practitioners did not want to give anything away to an opponent in this area.
Meaning in the old days if you had banged up and tough hands from lots of IP training then you were giving away your advantage - as a skilled person could pick this up just by looking at an opponents hands knowing that they had this skill. So the Ziranmen approach was to conceal this so that the element of suprise could be employed.
Anyway thats our vibe on this area of training 
Blacktiger:
Do you teach? If you do… Do you push all your students to do all of the above mentioned gung’s or skills? Do you have everyone learn Iron Palm and teach Iron palm strikes applications? What is your opinion about the average student? Do they or will they put forth the effort to keep a steady IP practice?
ginosifu
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1044432]1. Are iron palm techniques clearly demonstrated in the forms of your style?[/quote]I was taught the “techniques” and applications of the iron palm systems Ive learned, both through formwork and 2-man "drills. The teachers who taught me these systems, however, never really attempted to apply the iron palm under pressure, and this is where I have diverged from my teachers of the past. I beleive, quite firmly, that one needs to train the attack under stress for it to be an installed skill that is effective and utilizable.
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1044432]2. At what stage do you teach iron palm to your students?[/quote]Whenever they want; if its someone who Im willing to teach any of my martial art to, then they are more than welcome to learn iron palm at any time. Fact is, iron palm itself is composed of pretty simple drills that condition the body and develop power generation, but it takes a long time, relatively speaking. It is certainly drastically less complicated than some of the techniques that many people train within the first couple years of training.
In terms of dedication to actually follow through with training, thats up to them, I dont try to force anything. I will give them the necessary tools to work iron palm. Its up to them, and them only, to follow through with the training, and I am really not concerned with whether they do it or not, its really just up to them…
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1044432]3. Do you emphasize iron palm in your teaching without emphasizing breaking wood and/or blocks? Why, or why not?[/QUOTE]I believe that breaking is a fairly important aspect of it all. It is the only way to truly measure where you are at, and is an amazing way to learn to get over mental barriers of all kinds.
There are a number of ways iron palm can be employed, and that includes in a downward direction as a block or strike, just as the bag is struck–there are some advantages in terms of power development in this direction (and some disadvantages) so breaking blocks in horizontal, vertical, and diagonal positions, supported and not, helps gauge where you are at and where you have come…
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1045411]Blacktiger:
Do you teach? If you do… Do you push all your students to do all of the above mentioned gung’s or skills? Do you have everyone learn Iron Palm and teach Iron palm strikes applications? What is your opinion about the average student? Do they or will they put forth the effort to keep a steady IP practice?
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
Hi GS,
Im an instructor within my school but do not have my own students or classes.
Students are not pushed to do all of these, the core skills that everyone would learn are the ring training and circle walking. With the IP and so forth - this is taught to the advanced students. I have to say some people like it and others are just not into it and are happy to keep learning without incorpoarting the IP skill. In terms of the effort to keep steady practice in IP up. I think really it comes in peaks and valleys, I know myself away from class at home I will work on the bean bags etc and I will go through a patch of being right into it and then I may let it slip for a while and then come back to it again.
So its a funny one for students, I think for the most part this type of training attracts the very serious student but for the majority and in todays day and age where most people are time poor its a skill the average punter will say…I think I can do without that im doing all the other training so thats enough.