Why don’t we do a thread on the THEORETICAL implications of PERFORMANCE based wing chun?
We could have Terence and Knifefighter start off telling us all about the importance of fighting performance and skill, based on how much we roll with BJJ BB’s and spar with boxers and other MMA fighters - and then I’ll jump into it with guys like the Andrew’s and Ernie…and then after that we all have to shut up while Joy, Old Jong, KJ, James and whoever else tell us what it all means…theoretically!!!
And then later Rene could write a book about it!
And after the book becomes a best seller and makes the New York Times book review - and after the documentary about the book is shown on Public Television…
we can send a hard bound copy to the Wing Chun Museum to be enshrined and put on display for generations to come.
And after the book becomes a best seller and makes the New York Times book review - and after the documentary about the book is shown on Public Television…
we can send a hard bound copy to the Wing Chun Museum to be enshrined and put on display for generations to come. [/QUOTE]
don’t forget we need to link it back to shoalin and then hendrik can write the forward awarness of snake body thus i have heard
Sounds like the Cleveland event is gonna be Shootout at the OK coral rather than a meeting of mutual respect and extending the olive branch of friendship.
Some of the problem is we are all dogmatic in our thinking here about wing chun. Some people say its for fighting only, and I don’t think they have been in a serious fight situation. Some might say that all your wing chun knowledge is not complete until you develope the awareness. Others say its in the history or the roots where real wing chun lies.
So what does this all mean?
Nothing really. In a way they are all good things to know and practice but at the same time they are not the end all be all results or goals of wing chun. How many people out there have developed internal power? I mean real internal power? I am not talking about chi blasts, or no touch knock outs. I am talking about using the body in relaxed ways to generate short range burst power. I will admit I have not developed great internal power yet, but I am working on it.
A guy I train with can hit you with his fist being an inch away from your body and that hit will send you straight down to the ground. You do not fly back, you do not feel pain on the surface you feel it through your body. You basically sit straight down on the ground. His energy sinks you to the ground instantly and it hurts.
I have seen some fantastic martial artists in my short time. They all have their path they traveled, and their style they studied, etc.
I think that people are too yang on this forum, saying its this way or that way, and wing chun is only for fighting, and wing chun needs to have tournaments, etc. I honestly care less of what the outside wing chun world does, I care more about what I do, and how I train. I think, IMO, you should balance things out. Perhaps look at wing chun as an art instead of just fighting. Get a deeper understanding, then once you discover that go back to fighting and see how much different you see wing chun. Try to find the awareness of the body, so you can feel your structure and you can adjust it on the fly when need be through sensitivity. Then go back to what you are used to doing and see how differently it effects your training.
You can almost look at this forum as a sort of archive. There is tons of information on this forum that one would be hard pressed to find using any other method. If I want to find out about whatever clan of WC, historical figures, current practitioners, master,etc.. I can on here and that is a great thing. The problem of course is people and the way we treat each other. There’s allot of grouping here (theoretians, fighters, historians, etc…) and people using labels. This is where the problem lays IMO. Details and differences between us should be understood, and not taken personally, as we all have our varied opinions on things and this is the place to talk about those differences and similarities.
There’s allot of grouping here (theoretians, fighters, historians, etc…)
And that is what made this place such a great forum, various thinkers and ideas…regardless of what it is(was). We have the ability to share our own ideas, but now people feel a little skeptical doing so, as they may be told the are wrong or that they don’t understand.
and people using labels.
This has been the great downfall! Not to sound like I am contradicting myself from the first statement, because I am not. But the fact that we have people here with different abilities, knowledge and experiences…this is what made it great! But when people start using the labels, name grouping and pointing fingers…this is where we have lost track of what this forum is about (to me anyway).
Details and differences between us should be understood, and not taken personally, as we all have our varied opinions on things and this is the place to talk about those differences and similarities.
Agreed! We don’t have to believe everything everyone says here, but accept it as just an opinion, or someone else’s beliefs and leave it at that, with out all the attacks.
While the martial arts have a long history in both Japan and China, the rise of MMA has been something akin to the scientific method, where we can actually test the claims. Japanese styles (mainly Judo/Jiujitsu) have made an invaluable contribution to the sport, while the Chinese styles seem to have contributed nothing. The reality is that some of these Japanese martial arts really do work, while the Chinese martial arts seem to be almost pure mythology. If I’m wrong, one has to wonder why a country of over a billion people has not been able to bring forth a single MMA competitor of note. China can create an NBA star, but its rich and ancient history of martial arts can’t produce a single MMA champion? A country with less than a tenth the people manages to produce so many great MMA competitors.
I don’t think there’s an active MMA training scene in China at this point. Back during Mao’s time, they just did Wushu and when visiting Sanshou teams came, the Chinese team didn’t spar well. Then they started training for it, and already being spectacular athletes, the next time a visiting team came, they did much better.
They do very well in the many amateur athletics they do persue, so if they had teams the way Brazil had Chute Boxe, BTT, etc., the U.S. had ATT, Quest, MFS, etc., Russia had Red Devil, RTT, etc., I’m sure they would also become competitive.
Likewise, the spread of Asian wrasslin from Mongolia, through China, into Japan, and to Brazil has also seen a shift of focus from pit-fighting to injurious combat method, to harmonious sport (which went on to favor throws), to ground-fighting MMA.
The reality is that some of these Japanese martial arts really do work, while the Chinese martial arts seem to be almost pure mythology. If I’m wrong, one has to wonder why a country of over a billion people has not been able to bring forth a single MMA competitor of note.
Maybe because with a billion people they don’t need to go outside of the country and do MMA.
The Chinese are a little busy right now as they are the manufacturing center of the world at the moment. Their economy is red hot, they are the place where raw materials from all over the world are going to fuel their explosive growth.
It’s the place where all computers by ALL the major players are manufactured now.
It’s the place where the majority of consumer electronics are manufactured now–from cell phones, to TV’s to monitors, to dvd players, mp3 players, cameras, etc.
It’s the place where Wal-mart the largest retailer on the planet has annointed as the perferred source for their goods.
So the Chinese are a little busy being the place where everything you buy comes from. Perhaps when they have some free time, they’ll spend some of their recreation time on building a MMA culture.
You might ask the same thing about India for that matter. They too are busy taking over the knowledge work of the world for pennies on the dollar. The playing fields of work have been levelled but not in a way you might imagine.
Now perhaps the uneducated underclass might be interested in MMA. But in both cases I doubt it. In the case of China, the government certainly isn’t interested in a populace being trained in combative arts. Not if your goal is to suppress and control them. Historically during the cultural revolution they killed off or “re-educated” martial arts teachers en masses in China.
You have to look at the big picture to see what has gone on in the long term and what is important in the short term to figure out priorities.
Martial Arts in China is viewed more as a “tourist” industry draw than anything.
You can see it in the “Shaolin Temple” and in the dumbing down of the tournaments in Chen Village for example.
So, again, right now the focus on scientific method is not on MMA, but on economic development and domination of strategic marketplaces. In many respects it is tragic that instead of forcing change as we did against the Soviet Union in a technological race–we’ve simply HANDED OVER and outsourced our technology in the name of reduced labor costs and profit.
Start taking a look at the back of everything you own and purchase to see where it is Manufactured at. Wonder why the cost of raw materials here like steel and cement are so high and WHERE they are being exported to.
Start wondering if your MMA training will allow you to compete with someone with a higher education than you who is quite happy with a $5,000/year salary in their country.
Pay attention to what matters, as opposed to who has what belt in the latest Pride or UFC. It’s about as meaningfull as who “won” on any particular WWE show or Don King sponsored Boxing event.
