Hi !
Anyone have any infirmation on the Hung Gar wooden man?
Is it common amongst the different styles of Hung Gar?
I understand that the Lau Family Hung Gar have this in there training.
Cheers!
[QUOTE=thewutangmonk;798859]Hi !
Anyone have any infirmation on the Hung Gar wooden man?
Is it common amongst the different styles of Hung Gar?
I understand that the Lau Family Hung Gar have this in there training.
Cheers![/QUOTE]
I am sure different people will say different things. My thought is that it is not a major part of Hung Gar, and I feel it was recently added. Though much of hung gar was right;)
Lau Family has one, and there are vids of Chan Hon Chung using it. Also Chiu Chi Ling has one. Chan Hon Chung sifu’s seems to be a wing chun type dummy. This dummy probably was a straight import of the Wing Chun one. But the other ones may be more traditional.
In my line of Hung Gar, I am not aware of any dummy training. Perhaps it is lost (perhaps a long time ago or perhaps not passed on by my sigung). But it doesn’t seem to play a role. I havn’t heard of a traditional Dummy used in the Lam family, discounting Chiu Chi Ling…depending where you put his family tree.
This isn’t a statement of what is or isn’t found in hung gar, but rather what is common and what is in the Hung Gar I do.
I’d like to hear more if others have info
In my Family,Lau Family,the wooden man plays a big role..
we actually use 2 types of wooden man..the stationary one..almost like wc one but the 2 arms are on the same height..on this one we practise drills and also have a form
the second one is the more traditional one,this one turns and has on both side 4 arms..its good for conditioning and also we have a form on this.Wooden men,logs wrapped in ropes,poles rammed in the floor etc it all have been used for hung kuen training ever since ..part of conditioning..now not everyone has the space in his school so I guess with the time conditiong has been reduced to saam sing etc.
Besides HK, where else can i train Lau Gar ?
Canton and the UK
Lau Gar is not not what is refered to above. Lau Family is a famous hung gar clan/group/family etc. The made some great movies and do some good hung gar.
Lau Gar is found in the UK, but this seems to be a different version of the lau gar often refered to as the southern 5 families. This style isn’t to common. Your probalby not gonna find it in the phone book or down the street… unless you live in Hong Kong, and maybe not even then. LOL
Hi guys
are we talking about the “Wing Chun’s Mok Jong” used by some hunggar schools
or the ok jong used by Chiu that i’ve seen from 60s and 70 magazines?
in either case i don’t think there is a intrinsic hung gar mok jong?
Hung Kyun muk yan jong was a just a pole in the ground to train kicks, strikes and “bridges” conditioning.
[QUOTE=PM;800589]Hung Kyun muk yan jong was a just a pole in the ground to train kicks, strikes and “bridges” conditioning.[/QUOTE]
are u mistaking this for the Mok GaR Mok Yan Jong perhaps???
which would makes sense due for Wong Fei Hung’s last wife??
then again pole in ground is generic for many southern arts?
or?
i guess if one can back track to the earliest record of it in hung gar u can find?
Hung Gar Wooden man description
So.. how different is the Mok Gar vs Wing Chun vs Hung Gar Wooden Man ?
Hung Kyun jong does not move that much as Mok Ga jong. also, it is used also for hand techniques - Mok Ga jong is used mainly for kicking.
why the jong was so simple? i think - for the rebels and anti-Ching revolutionaries it was easy to find a tree, or dig a simple pole into the ground.
Hung Gar MOK YAN
so.. is there a drill or form in the Hung Gar style for the use of this training man ?
[QUOTE=thewutangmonk;800957]so.. is there a drill or form in the Hung Gar style for the use of this training man ?[/QUOTE]
following things we practise on 2 different kind of wooden men..
- conditioning
-drills
-forms
I guess those differ from family to family..some dont even use wooden men..
anyway,theres not a common wooden man form as in WC…
Hi,
It seems to me your comming from the question at the wrong end. It seems your questioning why there are different dummies. Dummies probably didn’t stem from a single source. Rather they were crafted by resourcefull people looking to work specfic skills. My Hung Gar teacher doesn’t use dummies per say for his hung gar training (though he knows wing chun and uses it). But to help facilitate his saam sing, he burried a pole into the ground and wraped it with a garden hose to give it a real tough and dense exterior. He then can work on saam sing. This idea could be expanded upon and could be called a dummy. But it was ideas like this that probably drove the dummies to be created. Each person probably created their own dummy mostly on their own with perhaps mild interactions with other groups dummies. This is why they are so mych differnt.
One picture I saw for a dummy was actually made of stone. Mok Gar uses a lot of kicks and if I recall correctly they had several different types of dummies that focused on kicking. The Choy Li Fut dummy has a lot of different features that allow a CLF person to train the numerous skills they have. For hung Gar training, I would suspect that the choy li fut dummy may be a pretty good one. The standard wing chun dummy we think of was brought into wing chun by Yip Man from a close friend/relative from a different pai. Wing CHun always had dummies, but they were burried. The hanging dummy was an inovation from a different clan.
Today I have seen that dummy in many arts. It is a good training aid, but it only trains a few things and most styles would probably find it limiting. Chan Hong Chun has a clip on the net where he uses it. I have seen CLF people that incorporated it, as well as Bak Mei people. Some slightly modify the dummy to have different dimensions.
Choy Li Fut has a large variety of jongs, the ching jong or balance dummy is the one most are familiar with, but there are others, some for sandbag training, some for staff,others that move, etc. The Wing Chun Mook Yan Jong was not brought into Wing Chun by Yip Man. Many other styles of Wing Chun predating Yip’s lineage, such as Yuen Kay-San, Hung Fa Yi,Gu-Lou, etc use the Wooden Man.
At my kwoon we have a wing chun dummy. We are Hung Kuen so we practice techniques from our sets on the dummy. There are no set patterns or forms. It’s really up to us to pick apart our techniques and apply them. Sihings help the juniors and so on. Most beginners do basic sam sing on the dummy if no partner is available. Advanced guys do most stuff out of the core sets.
Hi TenTigers
Let me rephrase what I said. Apparently it didn’t come across as I intended it. The Jong has been part of wing chun long before Yip Man. This is evident by looking at older versions of the Jong from various lineages, as you noted Yuan Kay San and others. However, if you look at the early pre 1950 Jongs, they were mostly dead jongs. Jongs that were burried in the ground. Yuan Kay San Jongs that we sometimes see today are very different from the common hanging Jong. This hanging, the wall mount, for what is called the live jong was an addition brought into wing chun by Yip Man. I’ll have to check back on the details.
Just in case I am wrong, are you saying the Hanging Dummy “live” dummy predates Yip Man? If so, can you give an example? I’d hate to be spreading misinformation…again. LOL
No, you might be right about the hanging dummy and the live dummy. Although I have heard about spinning dummies as well. Yip Man’s student,Koo Sang was the manufacturer for all the wooden men you saw before about 10-15 yrs ago. Perhaps it was his innovation. Now that we are aware of all the other branches of WC, we can dig deeper. I hope you didn’t think I was coming down on you for that-it was not intentional.
Hi Ten,
Koo Sang was the major manufacture of the Yip Man dummies, but others have noted that some one else created Yip Man’s early dummies prior to Koo Sang being the main person, and regarded as the standard. Koo Sang did not invent the Hanging. I’ll check my books tonight and get the name I have. I am hesitant but I want to say it came from Weng Chun and perhaps Chu Chong Man, but I have to double check.
And no, I didn’t take anything personal. LOL. No Need for that. Though it is funny that many people who engage in fighting arts do seem to have such thin skins. LOL
[QUOTE=southernkf;801672]
Though it is funny that many people who engage in fighting arts do seem to have such thin skins. LOL[/QUOTE]
Funny, but so very true.