ok, but nobody is saying that Lam Jo didn’t study with Lam Tsai Wing right?
And Lam Jo family is saying that these other masters studied their Hung Gar under him (Lam Jo)as he headed up Lam Tsai Wings school right?
Is there anything that says Lam jo was not the system holder?
Or that he was a top disciple of Lam Tsai Wing?
Personally, I think that Hung Fist is one of the a-1 systems of kung fu on earth and that if the system is taught properly then hte whole lineage thing loses importance in light of the skills of those who teach it.
what I mean is a teacher can have a great lineage but still be a less than satisfactory teacher with les than satisfactory skills.
whereas someone who does not hold lineage and learned the Hung Fist from a source far removed or from several sources can be an excellent stylist and an excellent teacher.
That’s the only problem I have with lineage questions.
If the training is good, and the skills are there, I personally do not have a great concern about where they came from, only that they are there.
So all Hung stylists are OK in my books.
infighting in a family is not a good thing at all as it tarnishes the whole.
The one thing that must be made known is that we are not splitting into factions or anything. The hung gar system is a true family. The main point about the joint family statement is mo duk. All lineages have been recognized and they have been respected. Its about a true history that was founded on mo duk. This is a JOINT statement made by DIFFERENT lineages of Hung Gar, this shows nothing but UNITY.
i’m really really sick of the bull yes you have seen post stuff on the forum and each time i know what i’m talking about many people have agreed with me so shut up. as for the statement about who’s my sifu well it’s paul koh he studied the tang fung and the lam sai wing sect’s of hung gar.
as kung fu artist of the new age we must strive to
bring the truth to the light and find out weather someone is telling the truth or not how research it is the only way a wise man wants said “believe half of what you see and only a third of what you hear the rest come’s from pure research” thats what kung fu was built on. remmeber the three don’ts of kung fu:
)don’t be rash
)don’t be impulsive
)and don’t let your anger get the best of you.
so i say everyone research the facts and you would find out wheather chui chi ling is lying or not FIST mentioned lum jo’s sons website check it out and you will see the facts lum jo never said that
chui’s parent were his students it’s just that when lum jo took over the school from his kung fu
brother chiu chi ling’s parent were i think still students. correct me if i’m wrong. and as for the haters at the top i won’t give you the benefit of me saying any thing angry at you cause you are not a true martial artist if all you can do is bad mouth other peopl[QUOTE] [/QUOTE[QUOTE] [/QUOTE
i thought paul koh studied under tony lau which is tang fong lineage (correct spelling black tiger) and tak wak eng who studied fu jow? as for true martial artists. a true martial artist doesnt go around challenging people on-line or lie about who is there sifu tiger.
there is know need for me to lie if you were smart then you would know that tak wah also know hung gar basic of fu jow pai and any fu jow pai would agree with me. if you don’t believe me go to the website at www.shaolinblacktiger.com it will tell
you all you need to know.now enouth about you.
listen up guys i was on the yee’ hung ga site last night and it turns out that for a short time tung fung(correct spelling) was lam sai wing’s student(not actual student but he finish his hung ga training from him strange with all this leanage thing how two leanages can be tide togather) as for people who want to talk trash about me do it somewhere else this forum is very important and intereference from people who don’t like me ruin it so go away
Lam Sai Wing and Tang Fung exchanged info just like two sifus would. Tang Fung did not “finish” his training with Lam Sai Wing. Tang Fung finished the core (four pillars) before he left.
As for fu jow pai stuff, post it on another thread. This statement was made so that other hung gar practitioners could express their concerns or thoughts.
you mentioned that you saw on our website about Tang Fong was a student of Lam Sai Wing, I am curious where is it located on our website.
By the way, may be you can help. When is the best time to reach your sifu Paul Koh?
we have been trying to call him at the school the last couple of days. When you see your sifu, can you ask him to call Pedro, we have something to discuss with him.
I’m really not trying to start anything here but I remember reading in one of Ho Lap Tin’s books that Tang Fung did “study” under Lam Sai Wing. He may have learned the “core” or main sets of the Hung style from WFH but Tang Fung’s lineage also has the “extra” forms which LSW taught. So obviously there was some “teaching” going on here on the part of LSW. Yet I doubt very much that LSW considered TF his student. Remember that KF has a family structure. If they started out as Kung Fu brothers then that is how they will always be. It’s then just a question of who is the older brother and who is the younger. The same would apply to Lum Jo and Chiu Kau.
Peace
NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT’S END ARE EVEN FEWER.
My sifu is a student of Ho Lap Tin, and in his book, what he is saying, is that Tang Fong had become friends with Lam Sai Wing prior to becoming a student of Wong Fei Hung. Lam Sai Wing introduced Tang Fong to the Canton style of hung ga but was not his student. He also introduced Tang Fong to Wong Fei Hung and this is how Tang Fong became a student of Master Wong. According to my Sigung, when he was alive, Lam Sai Wing was not recognized as a teacher to Tang Fong but a good friend. Just want to clearify what he was saying in his book. Also my sifu has all the records and history of Tang Fong, which was passed on to him by Ho Lap Tin Sigung, and not once does it mention that Tang Fong was a student of Lam Sai Wing.
Peace
Je Lei Sifu
The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger
I forgot to mention. No we do not have the extra forms in our lineage that the Lam Sai Wing branch has. Ho Lap Tin learned all of Tang Fong’s gung fu. and the sets we use (handsets only), are:
Gung Ji Boc Fu Kuen
Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen
Ng Ying Kuen
Gow Gee Lin Wan Kuen (created by Tang Fong and Ho Lap Tin)
Tit Sin Kuen
Lao Sing Kuen (created by Ho Lap Tin)
Peace
Je Lei Sifu
The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger
Lam sai wing was the older training brother or sihing to Tang Fong. We had always acknowledge the contributions Lam Sai Wing had on Tang Fong’s training. We have the same hand forms as Je Lei Sifu with the exception of Lao Sing Kuen, since we are from the Yuen Ling lineage of Tang Fong.
Jei Lei and DF , thank you for the clarifications.
Peace
NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT’S END ARE EVEN FEWER.
I’m a little bit confused here by people saying Tang Fong never learned at all from LSW.
Quotation: “It was from Lin, Deng Fang first started learning the Hung’s pugilism. Then to pursue his interest, he followed Master Huang Fei Hung for futher study of the intricacy of Hung’s and also the osteopathy.”
(Book Ho Lap Tin; Hung Ka Pugilsim, self defence, umbrella of dragon and tiger)
Here Ho Lap Tin says Tang Fong first learned from LSW, then from WFH.
In the text “Hung GAr, the kungfu of TAng Fung, Wong Fei Hung’s other pupil”, by John Seeto in IKF, Januar 1985:
Tang Fung first learned from WFH and trhen cam to HK. Quatation: “Tang Fung decided to join his clasmate LAm Sai-wing, who had already established himslef as an accredited instructor in Hong Kong. For a short period, Tang Fung underwent additional training under LAm Sai-wing, allthough the former had already mastered Wong Fei-hung’s entire system. This has led to some confusion among the descendants of Lam Sai-wing’s school…”
According to this text he learned later (as a brother).
So did TF study at any way under LSW or not at all?
Ok, ya’ll have got me really confused. I’ve just started Hung Gar as one of my studies. Currently I am studying under Grandmaster Yim, HonSok. He is the Grandmaster of Teoul Moon Kung Fu. In the late 70’s he trained in Taiwan under Grandmaster Chung Guk Chi in Hung Gar. Where does this name fall into the Hung Gar family tree? Hope this does not still any more crap up on this topic. I know this is my first post. But a little info. I started 5 animal in 82, have been practicing since. Started Tai Chi (Chen) in 89, practicing since. I’m not real new to the arts, but I’m still a student. Just curious where my Grandmaster’s Hung Gar came from. Ya’ll have a nice weekend.
What you have read is in my sigung’s book, but the interpertation can be misconstrued. As I have stated, Tang Fong had meet Lam Sai Wing prior to becoming a student of Master Wong, and just as it was during those times, many masters would share ideas and techniques, which is what happened in the case. Later on he trained under Master Wong and learned the complete hung ga system from him. Several years later Tang Fong meet up with Lam Sai Wing in Hong Kong, and they shared and traded ideas and techniques from each other. If Tang Fong had learned from Lam Sai Wing, I believe that we would have many of the forms that was created by Lam Sai Wing and added into his system, but this is not the case. And as I have stated, Ho Lap Tin never acknowledge nor was he told that Tang Fong was a student of Lam Sai Wing. As DF has stated, we share the same lineage, therefore, if what the Lam’s teach is not in the lineage that comes from Tang Fong’s students–Ho Lap Tin & Yeun Ling–then it is impossible to recognize him as a student of Lam Sai Wing.
I think a lot of confusion comes from the word LEARNED. Just as Wong Fei Hung had learned different things from different master of different styles, he was never a student of these master or the style. They were just mutual friends who exchange ideas and techniques.
Peace
Je Lei Sifu
The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger
[This message was edited by Je Lei Sifu on 02-11-01 at 07:06 AM.]
Hey, Hung Bros, it gets better-did you see the article in IKF where Lum Jo states that Lam Sai-Wing is the only branch that has the Ng Long Bot Gwa Gwun! (That’s it, I’m goin to Hong Kong to take pictures with-oops, I mean train with Lum Jo)
if you had taken the time to read. you would know that the article does not say that only the lsw branch has the ng long bot qua quone. it says that it came from the yang family styles and that lam sai wing (let me repeat that) “lam sai wing” only taught it to lum cho and that he taught it to a select few. it doesn’t say anything about any other “branch” knowing it or not knowing it just that if you are a lsw student thats where it came from. and as for you going to hong kong to learn from lum cho. he has stated that anyone who has a love for the hung is welcome. but if he did teach you anything, im sure you would just swear you got it straight from wong fe hung.
