Just wondering how you guys would handle such a situation.
9mm bullet at 3 paces. ![]()
Are you talking a grappler or a ground grappler(BJJ/Judo/JJJ)??
a ground grappler…
Easy
Yield then issue then go home for a cup of tea and clear some space on the mantlepeice for the trophy.
Easy
If he’s a BJJ player, say: “Hey, the guy behind you says that Sakuraba owned the Gracies”…when he turns and double legs empty air, whack him in the head with a Taiji Straight sword-
If you are taichichun fighter, you are pretty much stand up grappler so grapple standing up where you should be better at than ground grappler. If you go to ground, try to get away and up.
If he is better than you in both ground and stand up grappling, you are his meat.
If you are really interested in using your Tai Chi to defeat a ground-grappler, I suggest finding an experienced ground grappler to play with and work on your Tai Chi principles on the ground. Like anything else it has to be worked at.
If you think like Repulsive Monkey, on the other hand, I would simply suggest tapping, either the opponent or the mat, and acknowledging verbally with either “matte” or “tap” if possible. Ground grapplers usually let go at that point, assuming it’s a sparring match.
How would you defend yourself against a grappler, using Tai Chi..
Northen Lights Tai Chi’s Fast Wrestling set. ![]()
Re: How would you defend yourself against a grappler, using Tai Chi..
Originally posted by Shooter
Northen Lights Tai Chi’s Fast Wrestling set.![]()
Do you have tapes of this? I would like to see it one day.
In the book Chen Style Taijiquan by Morning Glory Publishers there are many defences against commen takedowns. Flowers out from the bottom of the sea is used to defend a tacle type of attack. Brush nee is used to defend a single leg takedown. There are moves against rear barehugs and such. But I still suggest doing some cross traing. Judo is the perfect complement to tai chi. It focuses on stand up throws with a decent amount of ground stuff just incase you do end up there you arent clueless.
Shooter and Merry Prankster,
Address the question in the only real way that it can be addressed. Each with a slightly different perspective.
Form movements are designed to build and help develop “with guidance from a teacher” a certain perspective in the body. IMHO not to be taken directly and put to use.
The simple answer is to yield, empty and follow, how this is used or what shape it takes really depends on the skill of the grappler and the or the lack of skill by the taiji player.
Merry Prankster
The irony of your response is that you fail to see that I purposely left out any details in response to the inital question as it wasn’t very valid in the first place.
My friend does BBJ and I have never had to tap out with him, ever!
If you don’t go down then more than likely the Taiji opponent will take out the BJJ/wrestler etc.
And going down to the ground is no guarantee of success for a wrestler, Taiji can be effective up right or on the ground, it sounds like your experience of Taiji is minimal.
The irony of your response is that you fail to see that I purposely left out any details in response to the inital question as it wasn’t very valid in the first place.
Not especially “ironic,” but whatever.
He asked how you would use Taiji against a ground grappler. The answer is simply to practice.
My friend does BJJ and I have never had to tap out with him, ever!
Bully for you. You’ll learn more if you get tapped though.
If you don’t go down then more than likely the Taiji opponent will take out the BJJ/wrestler etc.
What you’re really saying is that the fighter who dictates the range of the fight usually wins. That’s usually true. No argument.
And going down to the ground is no guarantee of success for a wrestler
True.
Taiji can be effective up right or on the ground
I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said you have to practice it and you need to do it with somebody who doesn’t flail about like an idiot.
it sounds like your experience of Taiji is minimal.
It is.
I cited you because you made what I read to be a smarmy, haughty little response to somebody who asked a legitimate question. It’s possible you meant it as a joke, but since you are deeming his question “illegitimate,” I suspect you didn’t.
Now, clearly if this fellow wants to know SPECIFICALLY how you will handle it then he’s barking up the wrong tree. If his intent is to troll, we’ll all know soon enough. Taiji teaches you sensitivity according to everybody here–well and good. But you still must practice it in that context–which, clearly you have–and FWIW, good on you for doing so. I don’t think it gives you the right to be snotty though.
Taiji can be effective up right or on the ground, it sounds like your experience of Taiji is minimal.
lol
Nah, RP. I’d say he’s got a fairly decent understanding of how TCC is used. He’s just taking it in a completely different direction and using it for different purposes.
Let’s see. He’s got a functional reference to one type of fa-jin in his body-locks and supplex, ward-off in his denial of the opp to come around his guard, pull-down in his ‘shrimping’, press in his chokes, and roll-back/pull-down in his shucks and throw-bys. Not to mention yielding, neutralizing and sinking - all due to his ability to relax and listen. Grappling just doesn’t happen if you can’t stick and follow. Submissions and escapes from same don’t happen without good silk-reeling, linking and adhering.
Like I said, MP is just applying TCC’s physical principles and attributes in a different manner and for different purposes.
Originally posted by Merryprankster
[B]
He asked how you would use Taiji against a ground grappler. The answer is simply to practice.
[/B]
You sure don’t know too much, do you merryprankster? Taiji is an [i]INTERNAL[/i] system. This means that if you do the long form twice a day, everyday for 10 years, you can beat up pretty much everybody in every situation. That’s the beauty of the whole thing. You can beat trained fighters without having to train yourself.
Cloudhands (small), to deflect arms; also to wrap (whatever appropriateness dictates).
Yielding Push
Pet the Wild Horses Mane either arm, but both will not have targets simultaneously.
Grasping Pearl at Bottom of the Sea? Golden Needle? (the one where its a cat stance, A deflect by the hip and diving fingers forward up to down).
Grasp Sparrow’s tail.
Rollback.
Originally posted by Water Dragon
[B]
You sure don’t know too much, do you merryprankster? Taiji is an [i]INTERNAL[/i] system. This means that if you do the long form twice a day, everyday for 10 years, you can beat up pretty much everybody in every situation. That’s the beauty of the whole thing. You can beat trained fighters without having to train yourself. [/B]
Hmmmm, not sure on that. I thought proper taichichuan curriculum invoved lot of stance work, drilling of individual techniques as well as other auxililary exerise along with performance of long form.
My taiji practice has involved lots and lots of standup grappling, done if not quite all the way live then in an amazing simulation. We call it “push hands” and “moving push hands” and do plenty every class and also pretty often when we see each other socially.
So yeah, if the guy is strictly a ground grappler (this seems highly unlikely but whatever) the answer is defintely going to be outwrestle him standing up so you don’t have to get in his element, as has been stated and restated on the thread already. And frankly, yield then issue would seem to be a big part of that - but there’s about a million ways to yield, depending on context, and same goes for issuing so RPs response really does strike me as vague and jokey as he claims. MPs response is correct, too, since if you aren’t used to using your taiji against a determined foe, you are going to get hosed.
All that said, “pulling down” energy is probably a promising way to deal with a leg takedown attempt. Pulling down basically means backing up and directing your opponents already downward energy further downward. Sound like a sprawl? I think maybe it should!
Originally posted by Water Dragon
[B]
You sure don’t know too much, do you merryprankster? Taiji is an [i]INTERNAL[/i] system. This means that if you do the long form twice a day, everyday for 10 years, you can beat up pretty much everybody in every situation. That’s the beauty of the whole thing. You can beat trained fighters without having to train yourself. [/B]
You were joking, right?
Thank you for all your views on this subject ![]()
It is interesting how some of you say that Tai Chi can be done on the ground…
I guess it’s possible to “root” other parts of your body while you are laying on the ground…
I never thought of using my Tai Chi on the ground… only in standing upright… I guess I better change my perceptions and ways to be more adaptive in my fighting…
I got a somewhat handle on the grapling part from my Aikido training…
In Aikido, we practice SEIZA, a kneeling position which differn’t techniques can be used as in the standing position, including numerous movements.
So I guess if I was using Tai Chi only and I got taken down to the ground, I could also use Tai Chi in this fashion…