[QUOTE=Kansuke;937593]When anyone offers percentages on things they cannot possibly know so specifically, they are 100% full of ****.[/QUOTE]
um so you just said you full of **** didnt you lol
Wow, got that, did you? :rolleyes:
when it comes to a street fight, the guy that has the advantage is:
The meaner, stronger, faster, smarter, and unfortunately luckier fighter.
also the situation is entirely going to effect the outcome.
ie: few fights that finish in the street start off with each guy squaring up toe to toe. usually there is an instant aggressor, an attacker that jumps the gun and gets the initiative.
depending on the circumstances, street fights, regardless of styles, are not always predictable.
a few times in the past, especially before I was all nice and sweet like I am now, when someone talked about “the street” I’d just grab them suddenly, screaming at the top of my lungs, throw them forcefully against a wall and begin to punch them in the face. Most of the really “deadly” TMA people I know usually had no answer for that, to which I would then state “but that’s a street fight”
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;937637]a few times in the past, especially before I was all nice and sweet like I am now, when someone talked about “the street” I’d just grab them suddenly, screaming at the top of my lungs, throw them forcefully against a wall and begin to punch them in the face. Most of the really “deadly” TMA people I know usually had no answer for that, to which I would then state “but that’s a street fight”[/QUOTE]
they were just lucky you didnt shank em in the kidney for a lesson.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;937637]a few times in the past, especially before I was all nice and sweet like I am now, when someone talked about “the street” I’d just grab them suddenly, screaming at the top of my lungs, throw them forcefully against a wall and begin to punch them in the face. Most of the really “deadly” TMA people I know usually had no answer for that, to which I would then state “but that’s a street fight”[/QUOTE]
funny story my sifu did that to me one time to see what I would do. Stopped short of hitting me hard, but he used his great broken English cursing (that’s some funny stuff hearing Chinese people curse!) I just stood there like a dope it scared the crap out of me. he proved his point very quickly.
Anyone has a shot at winning a streetfight. There are a lot of variables to consider in streetfighting. Boxing has less variables to consider than mma. MMA has less variables to consider than streetfighting. More rules equals less variables.
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;935523]What are some of Weaknesses of MMA fighters?[/quote]they have to adhere to a set of rules and regulations.
What are some counters to when they grab you an attempt to take you down?
judo throws baby!!
Also many say there is no-counter once they gain the submission lock? Is this true. is there away to escape submission lock. Is there a counter or a way one can squirm out of that painful posistion before having to tap out or getting a limb broken?
biting works wonders… taste the soft spots.
What sorta of fighters do MMA guys dread?
the kind that don’t follow rules: the sort that will fish-hook your mouth off, rake your face from your head, and crush the trachea while biting your nose. 
[QUOTE=uki;940071]they have to adhere to a set of rules and regulations.
judo throws baby!!
biting works wonders… taste the soft spots.
the kind that don’t follow rules: the sort that will fish-hook your mouth off, rake your face from your head, and crush the trachea while biting your nose. :D[/QUOTE]
LOL !!
Too funny
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;940072]
Too funny[/QUOTE]gene said to be myself.
So, if the non-mma opponent is “not following rules,” rules under which he most likely trains, what is stopping mma-guy from doing the same?
[QUOTE=Vash;940119]So, if the non-mma opponent is “not following rules,” rules under which he most likely trains, what is stopping mma-guy from doing the same?[/QUOTE]you are correct, nothing is to stop people from fighting without rules, but you must remember that MMA is a sport, so the competitors training in it and for it, train according to a set of rules and regualtions. it’s a one on one match, in a ring or something, with a ref - no weapons, no eye-gouging, no biting, no deliberate breaks, no fish-hooking, etc, etc, and when you train according to these rules, you develop patterns and what-not of reaction… the concept of muscle memory - one is more likely to respond with what they train because of how they train, according to the mindset of the training… there’s a difference between a guy who fights to protect his ego and the guy who fights to protect himself or his family… if someone provokes me to fight, i am going to do my best to rend their flesh from their bones, tear their face from their head, or otherwise mutilate all exposed skin and striking surfaces that i can hit. for myself, fighting is reserved for the last resort, and if someone wants to go on a vacation with me that bad, i’ll make sure they get their moneys worth. this is why i believe MMA is useless outside of the sports ring/cage… MMA fighters fight for the ego, medals, and recongnition… i fight only if i have to. 
[QUOTE=uki;940152]you are correct, nothing is to stop people from fighting without rules, but you must remember that MMA is a sport, so the competitors training in it and for it, train according to a set of rules and regualtions. it’s a one on one match, in a ring or something, with a ref - no weapons, no eye-gouging, no biting, no deliberate breaks, no fish-hooking, etc, etc, and when you train according to these rules, you develop patterns and what-not of reaction… the concept of muscle memory - one is more likely to respond with what they train because of how they train, according to the mindset of the training… there’s a difference between a guy who fights to protect his ego and the guy who fights to protect himself or his family… if someone provokes me to fight, i am going to do my best to rend their flesh from their bones, tear their face from their head, or otherwise mutilate all exposed skin and striking surfaces that i can hit. for myself, fighting is reserved for the last resort, and if someone wants to go on a vacation with me that bad, i’ll make sure they get their moneys worth. this is why i believe MMA is useless outside of the sports ring/cage… MMA fighters fight for the ego, medals, and recongnition… i fight only if i have to. :)[/QUOTE]
Funny thing is, that all those things you mentioned - eye gouging, biting, fish hooks, ARE taught in MMA and people are taught how to use them and counter them, didn’t you know that?
You know that in the early days of Vale Tudo there was only one rule in the vast majority of fights - respect the “surrender”, everything else was pretty much a go, INCLUDING all that stuff.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;940161]Funny thing is, that all those things you mentioned - eye gouging, biting, fish hooks, ARE taught in MMA and people are taught how to use them and counter them, didn’t you know that?[/quote]of course. i am only attacking the action of the sport itself and the mentality behind it… the best part about making generalizations is to discover the individual exceptions.
You know that in the early days of Vale Tudo there was only one rule in the vast majority of fights - respect the “surrender”, everything else was pretty much a go, INCLUDING all that stuff.
yet the question remains to those who still participate in these types of fights and with this type of mentality… why are you fighting? what is the ULTIMATE goal behind the action? this is where you will find the the root of the whole MMA tree of life.
[QUOTE=uki;940175]o
yet the question remains to those who still participate in these types of fights and with this type of mentality… why are you fighting? what is the ULTIMATE goal behind the action? this is where you will find the the root of the whole MMA tree of life.[/QUOTE]
A valid question, I can only, of course, speak for myself:
When I decided to compete in VT matches it was, simply, as a test of my MA skill.
I had competed already in Boxing, MT, Judo, Kyokushin and had for some time been a bouncer and had occasion to use my MA skills in the “real world”, which makes one ask what further test did I feel I meed?
Quite simply this:
While I had fought trained fighters in a “ruled oriented” environment and I had fought “untrained” fighters in a “no rules” environment, I had never fought trained fighters in a “no rules” environment.
That said, fighters have a deep respect for each other and our skills and the years that it takes to develop those skills, so I knew that, outside a “self protection” situation, that I would never fight a trained fighter in a “no rules” environment, so the very limited rules of VT was the logical next step in my development as a MA - Practioner > Fighter> Martial Artist> Teacher.
So I tried my hand at VT, some with a few rules, others with only one - RESPECT the Tap/Surrender.
It was eye opening and it was a crucial step for me in my development.
[QUOTE=uki;940152]you are correct, nothing is to stop people from fighting without rules, but you must remember that MMA is a sport, so the competitors training in it and for it, train according to a set of rules and regualtions. it’s a one on one match, in a ring or something, with a ref - no weapons, no eye-gouging, no biting, no deliberate breaks, no fish-hooking, etc, etc, and when you train according to these rules, you develop patterns and what-not of reaction… [/QUOTE]
so how many eyes did you gouge out this week?
how many people did you bite?
how many bones/joints did you deliberately break?
more importantly, how many of these techniques did you survive yourself this week?
[QUOTE=Pork Chop;940184]so how many eyes did you gouge out this week?
how many people did you bite?
how many bones/joints did you deliberately break?
more importantly, how many of these techniques did you survive yourself this week?[/QUOTE]predictable footwork. you’re quite obviously missing the point here.
[QUOTE=uki;940209]predictable footwork. you’re quite obviously missing the point here.[/QUOTE]
I probably am missing something here.
But 2 things…
1- “Why do you fight”. You make it seem like you have a hyper aggression switch that a sport guy’s not going to have. I know a couple pros that’ll take things as far as you want to take them. For them, it’s not about the ego of wearing a belt or looking good in front of fans - it’s much more primal. You hit me, I’m gonna hit you back 10 times harder. You punch me in the balls, I’ll tear your’s off. You hurt me, I’m going to kill you. Your assumption that a sport fighter’s not gonna go there is just plain false. Truly violent people gravitate towards violence and you’re going to find some pretty violent people that make their money competing in a sport where the taste of your own blood is common. I can cite plenty of examples even this year of guys coming into our muay thai gym, losing their temper in sparring, going outside of the rules, and having their dirty tactics returned 10 fold. You talk of going on vacation with people who make their money giving people guided tours.
2- Hyper aggression is not always a good thing. Snipers do exist. For every guy out there looking for blood, lunging at people with the berserker rage, there are others that will calmly and quietly incapacitate you before you can get your chance. You sound like every guy who thinks that getting knocked out is a choice, that you will refuse to succumb and therefore won’t. The human brain has a finite capacity for damage and when you have no control of your limbs, you’re not getting up. There’s no shame in not being able to get up once you’ve been caught. The mistake came in getting caught in the first place, and being in the middle of sinew-tearing bloodlust is not the right way to avoid getting caught.
[QUOTE=Pork Chop;940229]I probably am missing something here.
But 2 things…
1- “Why do you fight”. You make it seem like you have a hyper aggression switch that a sport guy’s not going to have. I know a couple pros that’ll take things as far as you want to take them. For them, it’s not about the ego of wearing a belt or looking good in front of fans - it’s much more primal. You hit me, I’m gonna hit you back 10 times harder. You punch me in the balls, I’ll tear your’s off. You hurt me, I’m going to kill you. Your assumption that a sport fighter’s not gonna go there is just plain false. Truly violent people gravitate towards violence and you’re going to find some pretty violent people that make their money competing in a sport where the taste of your own blood is common. I can cite plenty of examples even this year of guys coming into our muay thai gym, losing their temper in sparring, going outside of the rules, and having their dirty tactics returned 10 fold. You talk of going on vacation with people who make their money giving people guided tours.
2- Hyper aggression is not always a good thing. Snipers do exist. For every guy out there looking for blood, lunging at people with the berserker rage, there are others that will calmly and quietly incapacitate you before you can get your chance. You sound like every guy who thinks that getting knocked out is a choice, that you will refuse to succumb and therefore won’t. The human brain has a finite capacity for damage and when you have no control of your limbs, you’re not getting up. There’s no shame in not being able to get up once you’ve been caught. The mistake came in getting caught in the first place, and being in the middle of sinew-tearing bloodlust is not the right way to avoid getting caught.[/QUOTE]
One of the most violent person I knew was a ****o-ryu Sensei that I bounced with years ago at Paprazzi here in Toronto.
He was also a former kick boxer, boxer and liked strippers and long walks on the beach, if they were with strippers with big boobs and who like anal sex, but I digress.
He was a sport guy, loved point competitions, he also demolished 2 Bandidos in a way that I thought he was gonna be a goner.
Turns out he was far more “untouchable” that they were.
Anyways, what he did to hem was nothing short of cruel and way beyond the boundries of “a beating”.
it really depends on the fighter - sorry to say. i’ve met new MMA guys and was able to hold my own. More experienced MMA guys would take me down. Some days, i was able to hit them, other days they were able to hit me.
strategically, the most interesting observation is that they aren’t used to dealing with other non-MMA guys. in other words, do what you do and hope for the best..and i try to stay away from the ground. hard stuff, but lots of fun! nothing but respect for these guys.