[QUOTE=bawang;927714]why do manies peopl ein noth america obsess about lineegge and history?[/QUOTE]
We like stories. 
[QUOTE=Shaolin of Old;927672]Yeah i understand your points and do like them. I hope you don’t mind but you couldn’t give me your opinion on the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmmcgocSmWI
I would consider the Hung gar guy’s approach traditional and to me it does not look like kickboxing, what do you think of his approach and how effective or uneffective is it?[/QUOTE]
the “master” there looks so arrogant
with his hands behind his back trying to be like some movie he’s pathetic
i’d own both of those guys, at the same time.
i’m not exagerating, their method is flawed it looks stiff and uncoordinated, i dont know what the crane guy was doing when he was walking about backwards and forwards side to side like a duck for no reason.
anyone with a good jab cross would have them on the floor.
[QUOTE=Shaolin of Old;927648] Is what wong kiew kit doing right?[/QUOTE]
no, he is not. that is all:D
[QUOTE=Drake;927720]We like stories. :D[/QUOTE]
stories with bewbies in them!
Hey Jeff, you should fly up and visit with me and Stanley one day!
[QUOTE=bawang;927714]why do manies peopl ein noth america obsess about lineegge and history?[/QUOTE]
so people believe they have the best or the oldest. idk my lineage is all messed up. lineage isnt that important to me. its the people who teach you and their experience that mattter.
[QUOTE=jmd161;927590]The more you learn about CMA the more you realize you don’t know. You hear and see so many different things… you don’t know what is truth or fiction anymore. The more I train with my sifu, who is very traditional. The more I see the way we’ve come to visualize CMA and it’s training methods are completely wrong.
In 99% of CMA schools the students are taught forms and very little time, if any, is spent on actual application. If any sparring is done, it’s usually a badly taught half ass basic kick boxing method. Many people some how believe that learning this way is traditional and one day they will some how see everything clearly.:rolleyes: [/QUOTE]
If you are going to use percentages and claim it as fact, then you should make sure you have done the research. By saying 99% if the schools do it wrong, you make it seems like you think you are part of the 1% that does it right. Sure, we all think we have the real deal, and we all think we know the real stuff, but this type of arrogance is actually what is damaging the CMA.
[QUOTE=jmd161;927590] When you look at today’s kung fu schools you see two separate methods being taught. In the majority of schools you see the forms with little application, and then there’s the schools that teach Sanshou. Of course then comes the debate on who’s traditional the forms collectors or the sanshou people?
[/QUOTE]
San Shou can be taught separately without forms, and are still called CMA.
[QUOTE=jmd161;927590]
The truth of the matter is they’re both traditional, but lacking in certain areas. In speaking with old timers from Hong Kong and China traditional CMA is Sanshou and forms taught together, but, only after you’ve learned some Sanshou to defend yourself. In today’s CMA they openly teach you forms but offer no substance after you learn a form. Usually after learning one form you’re pushed to start learning the next form and so on. [/QUOTE]
I have seen some “Traditional” that comes from Hong Kong and some parts of China that were just as bad, if not worse, than some of the stuff we find else where in the world. Its dangerous to assume that they had the right stuff back then (or there), where as we don’t have it now. Actually, its just plain foolish, and arrogant of you to even post such things.
[QUOTE=jmd161;927590]
This brings up a question my sifu asked me.
" People want to make lots of money off teaching Chinese martial arts, but they choose to teach crap…Why Not teach the real thing and show it actually works and make even more money?"
Sure, your sifu is right, so that’s why MMA gyms are growing and most of the “Traditional” CMA schools are struggling to pay rent.
People should move away from this “Traditional” Vs “Modern way of thinking. We are living in 2009. Be serious!
I agree jeff.
[QUOTE=Drake;927720]We like stories. :D[/QUOTE]
Not to mntion without lineage and history we may actually be called upon to prove our Kung-Fu through actual competition. That would be no good for anyone.
[QUOTE=GreenCloudCLF;927821]Not to mntion without lineage and history we may actually be called upon to prove our Kung-Fu through actual competition. That would be no good for anyone.[/QUOTE]
Which, ironically, is how history and lineage came to be so important to begin with.
[QUOTE=GreenCloudCLF;927821]Not to mntion without lineage and history we may actually be called upon to prove our Kung-Fu through actual competition. That would be no good for anyone.[/QUOTE]
I like what you are saying here
Even if you fight and lose, you still come out more respected than if you never fought at all.
[QUOTE=Eddie;927803]If you are going to use percentages and claim it as fact, then you should make sure you have done the research. By saying 99% if the schools do it wrong, you make it seems like you think you are part of the 1% that does it right. Sure, we all think we have the real deal, and we all think we know the real stuff, but this type of arrogance is actually what is damaging the CMA.[/QUOTE]
Not trying to be arrogant, but, I do feel I’m part of the 1% doing things right. That 1% represents many, if not millions of people… there is no way to get an accurate count. I used a precentage, it’s my opinion… it could be 99% of the schools I’ve witnessed, is that better?
[QUOTE=Eddie;927803]San Shou can be taught separately without forms, and are still called CMA..[/QUOTE]
If you read my post? I did say it was also…
[QUOTE=Eddie;927803]I have seen some Traditional that comes from Hong Kong and some parts of China that were just as bad, if not worse, than some of the stuff we find else where in the world. Its dangerous to assume that they had the right stuff back then (or there), where as we dont have it now. Actually, its just plain foolish, and arrogant of you to even post such things.[/QUOTE]
You took what I said out of context…I didn’t say the kung fu was any better or worst back then, infact, I didn’t mention anything about skill level. What I said was in talking to oldtimer’s from back then, they said that you learned self defense first, so you could fight, and then you learned forms.
[QUOTE=Eddie;927803]Sure, your sifu is right, so thats why MMA gyms are growing and most of the Traditional CMA schools are struggling to pay rent.
People should move away from this Traditional Vs Modern way of thinking. We are living in 2009. Be serious![/QUOTE]
How can we move away from it when the history of CMA, is what draws most people to it?
What has CMA proved lately?
Every forum I read all I see is flame wars and In family fighting and CMA artist being destroyed by other style/system artist.:eek:
We need to get back to the traditional and evolve our styles and stop all this inner family fighting. We need to start testing our stuff in as close to realstic conditions as we can find and disgard what doesn’t work.
Hmmmm, sounds a lot like what my sifu preaches…
Hey Dave, I’m planning on doing that, I’ve just been so busy relocating as you know the last 5 yrs. I’m back in Miami, so maybe I can finally unpack all my stuff and relax…lol
jeff:)
I also think a lot of people like the history and stories, and they like feeling as though they are part of a rich heritage and tradition. The US is a very new country, so you can only go back so far. You’ll also find a lot of Americans identifying with other old cultures as well, as a way of being part of a long history of whatever.
TCMA isn’t just about fighting, despite what it may have been in the past. For me, hand to hand combat is secondary anyway, as mastering my current weapons set would do me far more good on the modern battefield. You can’t fu jau an M240B. In fact, an M240B would likely decimate any army of TCMA fighters out there, in a very VERY short period of time.
My point is, people get involved with this stuff for different reasons, and nobody has a right to tell them they are wrong in doing so.
[QUOTE=jmd161;927839]
Every forum I read all I see is flame wars and In family fighting and CMA artist being destroyed by other style/system artist.:eek:
…
We need to get back to the traditional and evolve our styles and stop all this inner family fighting. We need to start testing our stuff in as close to realstic conditions as we can find and disgard what doesn’t work.
[/QUOTE]
By claiming that 99% of the people do it wrong, one could say you are very much part of the problem, or should I rather say, the reason why there are flame wars on internet forums when ever people are talking about CMA. We as Chinese Martial Artists, are ‘destroying’ ourselves.
This is a big problem within the CMA (and even within Chinese culture in general), where it is far to easy to diss someone else’s ability, than to acknowledge his/ her actual skill.
If you do it right, instead of just making outragious claims on the net, why dont you tell us exactly what it is that you do right, instead of just saying we all do it wrong?
[QUOTE=Eddie;927842]By claiming that 99% of the people do it wrong, one could say you are very much part of the problem, or should I rather say, the reason why there are flame wars on internet forums when ever people are talking about CMA. We as Chinese Martial Artists, are ‘destroying’ ourselves.
This is a big problem within the CMA (and even within Chinese culture in general), where it is far to easy to diss someone else’s ability, than to acknowledge his/ her actual skill.
If you do it right, instead of just making outragious claims on the net, why dont you tell us exactly what it is that you do right, instead of just saying we all do it wrong?[/QUOTE]
I acknowledge your skill, Sifu Eddie!
the problem is there is no criteria or standards in TCMA
oh, you do “XYZ sytem” and it’s famous so you are good
oh, you study under “Sum Ting Wong” so you are good
just because your system is famous and you come from a lineage of good fighters doesn’t mean YOU are good
[QUOTE=Eddie;927842]By claiming that 99% of the people do it wrong, one could say you are very much part of the problem, or should I rather say, the reason why there are flame wars on internet forums when ever people are talking about CMA. We as Chinese Martial Artists, are ‘destroying’ ourselves.
This is a big problem within the CMA (and even within Chinese culture in general), where it is far to easy to diss someone elses ability, than to acknowledge his/ her actual skill.
If you do it right, instead of just making outragious claims on the net, why dont you tell us exactly what it is that you do right, instead of just saying we all do it wrong?[/QUOTE]
If this is the case, you’re doing that same thing you accuse me of now…You choose to argue with me over my post. I named somethings we need to do yet, you come right back to bicker about my post.:rolleyes:
What are “YOU” doing to help CMA get back on track?
I want to get some discussion on how we can change things not bicker over spelling or other crap in a post.:mad:
Jeff:)
[QUOTE=jmd161;927845]If this is the case, you’re doing that same thing you accuse me of now…You choose to argue with me over my post. I named somethings we need to do yet, you come right back to bicker about my post.:rolleyes:
What are “YOU” doing to help CMA get back on track?
I want to get some discussion on how we can change things not bicker over spelling or other crap in a post.:mad:
Jeff:)[/QUOTE]
How do you accuse 99% of other schools of doing things wrong, and then be unhappy when they take offense?
I’d say I read it as:
“Everyone else is doing it wrong (99% of you, anyway), and I want to figure out how to fix you.”
[QUOTE=Drake;927846]How do you accuse 99% of other schools of doing things wrong, and then be unhappy when they take offense?[/QUOTE]
People dwell on what they choose to dwell on. At the time of writing the post I had a lot of thoughts going through my mind. In hind sight I could have used other words and not a percentage, but, I never said this was fact. I should have known people would choose to harp on the percentage and not discuss what’s at hand.
It’s much easier to attack someone trying to discuss ways of fixing CMA’s misuseage of percentages than it is to have actual discussions on fixing CMA.
I could have worded it differently can we get past that and try to address the issues that are making CMA a joke, and what we all can do as CMAist to change it?
Now of course someone will attack the fact that i used the word Joke behind CMA:rolleyes:
jeff:)