I think that the CMA is much more than just fighting. Face it…you can teach a student to fight in the first few months…if you cant your style is not so great.
Why would the old masters develop such indepth systems that incorporate Chinese culture..medicine if it were only about fighting?
I would feel sorry for the person who trains for a few hours a day several times a week because they may get into a fight. To me that is a paranoid person who needs to see their Chinese medicine man to get things balanced out…or to make it easier get a script for prozac or other drug to take the demons out of our head. When we are not being chased by shadows we do not have to train for the fight as hard.
Not trying to be disrespectfull to anyone…I just think the CMA offers benefit the society as a whole in many different ways…not just the 3% of the population that want to fight.
[QUOTE=Yao Sing;768418]As I said above, the Leopard Form came from Mok Gar. The first Spear set in the curriculum is from Lau Gar.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I knew the leopard set came from Mok family. That’s interesting about the spear though. I haven’t seen any other spear sets with the Lau name I’ll admit. But I was to understand that southern spear tends to draw power from the lead hand as opposed to the rear hand which is more northern and what is found in this spear set. I just figured it was a different Lau than the one in the 5 southern families.
I’m more interested in the other techniques though.
So if MC’s family trained in Mok Gar, did he continue to learn Mok Gar after meeting LKS? If he started from LKS at such a young age I would think he would have had to. I don’t think there is any way for him to have gained enough experience in Mok to make additions and such at that young an age and in such little time. Did MC make a lot of the southern additions or was it that guy that taught MC after LKS passed?
Also what about the other techniques? Such as the kui sows; the elbow, low backfist, high backfist combos and such that are often in southern material (though with different stances); etc? Where did all that other stuff come in?
chop For my friend EarthDragon, another parable: it’s been said that when you study martial arts dilligently for 1 year, you can defeat two men in combat; after 2 years, you can defeat three men. After 10 years… it isn’t an issue, because you don’t fight anymore.
LOL beat up 2 guys at the same time within 1 year of training??? thats why parables are not always the truth.
But whatever, OK point taken lets take fighting out of the equasion as I no longer fight myself and of course thier is much more to kung fu than fighting we all know that and that is not my point nor the reason i responded in the firtst place however it is the basis of the art.
all my point is if you are a martial arts practioner and you have more 10 times more information than you can apply you are learning unneccessary information even if you are simply collecting forms.
whatever floats your boat, but lets be real TCMA is about fighting whether you like to fight or have never fought in your life its still about MARTIAL warfare. again if you like to show lots of forms then pratice Wushu… no one will laugh when you can demonstrate 280 emtpy forms with no application.
Doc
sorry to highjack your thread just thought that was funny and needed mentioned. I know nothing of Chan Pui other than crosssing hands with him on Goldenrod Rd many moons ago and he is a gentleman and a great guy.
This is not my thread. I simply am interested in various branches of the mantis system. In your 8 Step studies, have you learned the section 1 to 6 forms which was the original creation of:
Chiang Hua Long (Master of Plum Flower Praying Mantis)
Wang Zhong Qing (Master of Bagua)
Chen De Shan (Master of Hsing-Yi and Tong-Bei)
From the information I gathered these forms were the heart of the 8 Step Praying Mantis system. I found these information from www.8-step.com.
I watched Mimi do a breakfall form many years ago, how many of you WL guys are currently doing this, practicing this or mastered this kuen?
I was quite impressed with it
My handbook (date unknown) lists a form in level #7A called “Tam Tui”. Has anyone see it and is it a new addition. And is it a kicking form or something related to leg work? Just curious, I have not heard my friends speak of this form. Back in the 70s I did get to see the "Swallow form" performed, very nice. Some of my comrades at the time learned "soft form", I missed out on that one... anyone know it? And did I hear at one time, MCs camp say that “eighteen kicks form” will never be taught?
What does the empty hand for list look like in your HB? Does it match the 83 one i posted above? Would you mind posting it if it is not the same or sending it to me in a PM?
Let me break it down for the MMA guy.The mantis that I know would be illegal in the UFC,IFL,MMA ring world,thats why it has the long standing street reputation that it does.
[QUOTE=yu shan;769283]My handbook (date unknown) lists a form in level #7A called “Tam Tui”. Has anyone see it and is it a new addition. And is it a kicking form or something related to leg work? Just curious, I have not heard my friends speak of this form. Back in the 70s I did get to see the "Swallow form" performed, very nice. Some of my comrades at the time learned "soft form", I missed out on that one... anyone know it? And did I hear at one time, MCs camp say that “eighteen kicks form” will never be taught?[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen tam tui 2-3 times. If I remember correctly, it is mostly a hand form with some kicks.
Yao Li knows 18 kicks and I think I saw Bob Rosen did it one time.
[QUOTE=Shaolin Dude;769522]I’ve seen tam tui 2-3 times. If I remember correctly, it is mostly a hand form with some kicks.[/QUOTE]
There are many versions of tantui. It is a basic form within Changquan -Northern Fist) (may also be called tantui) and Zhaquan and similar systems!
Aren’t most forms hand forms, with soem kicks?
I’ve seen the Wah Lum tam tui form several times - at least one of them - and while it’s not quite as heavily balanced towards kicks as, say, seven kicks, the one I’m familiar with does have more leg work than hand techniques. I’ve also heard it described as the ‘little mantis’ equivalent of the Tam Tui system that was merged to form Wah Lum, as far as where it would fall in the system for educational purposes.
I’ve seen soft form referred to as ‘cotton fist’; if they are in fact the same form, Master Chan has been teaching that (or some version of it) in seminars recently. Very nice stuff.
As far as student handbooks and curriculum, the biggest changes I’ve seen between the '83 version posted previously and what it looks like today are the inclusion of seminar material that has been taught over the years and added at appropriate points in the system. I don’t think the ‘core’ stuff has changed much - you’re not going to see 2nd form or 18 elbows go away, but things like S’il Fan Cha and Say Lok were added after they were introduced in seminars.
Let me break it down for the MMA guy.The mantis that I know would be illegal in the UFC,IFL,MMA ring world,thats why it has the long standing street reputation that it does.__________________
LOL your kidding right? let me guess your style is too deadly to be in the ring? you know killing techniques, Dim mak, or dismemberment jointlocks?
you cant possibly be serious so i will let that go.
PS my KF brother fought with mantis in the UFC 6& 7 winning both bouts and there is nothing illegal about any of mantis’s techniques in the ring. please dont give me the its too deadly reply. not every application is illegal… if it is dont use it.
The WL tan tui form (at least the one I learned) is a very difficult but very short form which is more legwork than handwork. It’s a great set to do at tourney’s as long as you add something to it to make it longer. It ranks up there with Yao Ling Kern (actually named Soft Flexible Fist which is different from Soft Form) as the most difficult WL emptyhand sets to perform. Yao Ling Kern is probably the “breakfall form” that somebody said they saw Mimi do, as it contains a breakfall into a kip up. Both Tan Tui and Yao Ling Kern are great performance sets.
In 2004,a fighter was killed here in the ring with an illegal forearm blow to the back of the neck. I knew this man and had trained with him so I am not kidding.
Phoenixdog,
While I am sure that unfortunate accidents can happen. It was not a mantis technique that killed this man and saying mantis techniques are too deadly to use in that kind of venue is ridiculous.
A forearm blow can be in football, hockey TKD, Muai Thai or any contact sport.
are you saying because the guy practiced mantis that threw the forearm that its techniques are illegal? whats illegal about a forearm blow? lets be real here.
Ironpenix
I am not sure if the form is drunken but it had many rolls adn was done very gracefully. I was hoping one of the WL guys would know
earthdragon, how did you know? i never said anything, but thanks. about the form, was she flipping on her head and doing the front breakfall on her forearms?
if so - drunken form.
