I was wondering…how long would you need a Sifu for before you can start practicing the art form by one self?
Like I’m hearing stories of how people move to a country to train for like an year or two but is that really enough time to grasp the art enough to master it by urself?
You can always train on your own and see your sifu every now and then but I’m assuming thats not what your addressing.
I personally want to stay close to my sifu as long as I can. I am developing a singing career but have told everyone involved that I refuse to move more than an hour away from my sifu. When I told him that he laughed but at the same time he could tell that I was serious.
I love the constant tutelage that being near to your sifu allows one to have but at the same time, you train on your own so you can make the art your own. My sifu and I have compared notes on movements many times, mine almost always end up being a waste of time but he is glad to see that I am making a effort to try and make the art my own.
Thats what a master is for me. A compass to keep you going down the right path.
As for the original question of how long? I personally don’t know and people are different so some might need 1-2 yrs and others might need 10-20. Its all up to how deep your willing to go and how much of your sifus knowledge you want.
Truly depends on the person AND their prior MA experience and the style.
Some systems lend themselves to solo practice and others simply do not.
The Hakka arts.
So SPM, Lung Ting, Bak Mei…
[QUOTE=Rosa;1260362]The Hakka arts.
So SPM, Lung Ting, Bak Mei…[/QUOTE]
umm the hakka arts need years to understand properly, doesn’t mean you can’t fight with them straight away, lung ying is probably the easiest to learn due to its military background, but still to fully understand take years under a good teacher
[QUOTE=Rosa;1260362]The Hakka arts.
So SPM, Lung Ting, Bak Mei…[/QUOTE]
Hakka arts tend to be taught to those with PRIOR MA training ( not a rule mind you but most Sifu’s believe that it certainly helps) and in THAT case, you probably can do the solo exercises after your teacher tells you that you have them down.
To practice the whole art you need a partner and consistent training with a partner for a few years I would think ( always exception to the rule of course).
Some guys just pick up stuff very quickly.
I don’t think you can make a “rule-of-thumb” on this and, at least in my case and the case of a few others I know, we went off on our own when our Sifu said we should.
Typically this tends to happen when the teacher can TEACH you no more and you must now LEARN for yourself.
There is no single answer to this. It depends on you, your ability to learn, your ability to take instruction and apply it correctly and the breadth and depth of what you studied. the learning of it is not the knowing of it. It’s not mere information you are getting. You must train and that takes time and understanding. It’s different for everyone, we aren’t all the same. Some people digest slowly, others quickly, but no one escapes the mechanical training required and that takes years no matter the martial art.
Think in terms of development of your self and try to avoid thinking about how long it takes you to get to the end. If all you think about is the end result, pretty much guaranteed you are going to miss big chunks of the middle and really, you never get to what you thought you wanted. Food for thought.
[QUOTE=Rosa;1260355]I was wondering…how long would you need a Sifu for before you can start practicing the art form by one self?
Like I’m hearing stories of how people move to a country to train for like an year or two but is that really enough time to grasp the art enough to master it by urself?[/QUOTE]
As pointed out, depending what you are working on. Some stuff we may work alone for a while. Some stuff need to be continuously supervised and corrected.
Dedicated training with a teacher for a year straight. It is a luxury for many, time wise and expense wise.
We all have day jobs or school work.
Everything takes time (kung fu) and persistence.
You have to practice on your own regardless
If the only practice you do is under your Sifu, that’s not enough to get very far, unless you’re in some sort of traditional live-in disciple scenario, which is really rare nowadays. That’s more of an issue with how you phrased your question, Rosa. Your second comment about moving to another country seems more indicative of what you want to get at. As an example that addresses that more directly, the first time I trained at Shaolin, I was there for only a month (plus a few more weeks training in Taiji in Beijing), however I was training rigorously for a year to prepare for that month and already had about two decades of Kung Fu under my belt. Now, I’m no master of Shaolin Kung Fu, but in that month, I got pretty good. If you just look at the time spent away, that’s not really indicative of the whole picture.
This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a ‘forbidden art’ really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it’s the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn’t have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I’ve read that it’s the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it’s effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things…idk haha.
If you go to some high quality institution for a month, you’ll learn something…
…you won’t learn everything - far from it - but you could learn something.
[QUOTE=Rosa;1260404]This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a ‘forbidden art’ really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it’s the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn’t have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I’ve read that it’s the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it’s effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things…idk haha.[/QUOTE]
Every art must be modified by the practitioner in order to make it effective for him/herself. Through practice and experience your skills become uniquely your own. No two practitioners even from the same style can fight in an assembly-line fashion, especially when they are fighting competent practitioners from other arts. And this only happens through extensive practice, 2-person training and sparring experience.
Bak Mei is a great MA. But so are many others. At one time, almost all CMA styles were ‘forbidden’ to most people, even to most Chinese. Whether something is still more openly taught, easily found or not, does not determine its superiority over other arts. An art’s effectiveness (or lack of) rests entirely on what you as a practitioner bring to it. You certainly won’t become capable enough at any CMA after only a month or two, especially if you are a complete beginner.
I don’t think Bak Mei is known as a forbidden art because the most “deadly” but rather because the founder, White Eyebrow used his method to kick an abbots arse. Or, something like that. He was expelled from the temple and his art deemed forbidden. Please somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s the simple version that was explained to me.
Bak Mei is a great style, but it’s concepts are present in most good CMA, so it really does boil down to the practitioner at some point. If your level of experience is novice then just about any of the CMAs will be fine to start with. Seriously a kick is a kick, a punch is a punch, a joint lock is a joint locketc. Practice the basics for a few years and eventually as you pick up new techniques and your sifu corrects the bad stuff you will begin to develop your own way of expressing what is now “your” style. Like I said, Bak Mei is great, so if you know where a good school is then go for it!
Edit: Sorry Jimbo, I wasn’t trying to duplicate your post. I see we were thinking on the same lines, it just took me longer to post my thoughts because of this awesome little 20 month old boy who calls me daddy. The above took me literally 30 minutes to type out between lego building. lol
[QUOTE=Rosa;1260404]This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a ‘forbidden art’ really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it’s the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn’t have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I’ve read that it’s the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it’s effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things…idk haha.[/QUOTE]
You shouldn’t pay that much attention to kung fu movies or to what random people write on the net.
Bak Mei is no more or no less dangerous than any other MA.
I’ve seen Bak Mei guys get their asses handed to them by “sport fighters” on “the street” more than once.
[QUOTE=Rosa;1260404]But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn,…[/QUOTE]
You have to learn Cantonese first. A white hair and white eyebrow Bai Mei teacher is hard to find.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1260421]You have to learn Cantonese first. A white hair and white eyebrow Bai Mei teacher is hard to find.
//youtu.be/fCbf4DjlHuM
[/QUOTE]
lol.
Not to mention, there are no secret magic special martial arts out there.
Train as well as you are able.
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable if you really want to learn martial art.
Get out of your head and into the world, your teacher will be pain and if he doesn’t show up, you aren’t learning a martial art.
Sifu is there to teach you the mechanics an the system. You are there to learn them. That’s the contract anyone of any merit signs explicitly or implicitly.
I’m a small person 5’6 60 kgs and I’ve been **** weak all my life so the thought of possessing skills to smash someones skull or break someones arm sounds really good to me. But I guess the replies in this thread has made me come to my senses.
Xinyiquan good first CMA ?
[QUOTE=Rosa;1260404]This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a ‘forbidden art’ really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it’s the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn’t have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I’ve read that it’s the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it’s effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things…idk haha.[/QUOTE]
There are vids and instruction manuals from some of the Masters whose Masters are of TCMA History. Get some of them and familiarize yourself with everything about the style you can, that way you can attend training seminars, etc. until you find the opportunity to train a spell with one of their reps. 
Bak Mei Kungfu is an excellent choice.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1260422]lol.
Not to mention, there are no secret magic special martial arts out there.
Train as well as you are able.
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable if you really want to learn martial art.
Get out of your head and into the world, your teacher will be pain and if he doesn’t show up, you aren’t learning a martial art.
Sifu is there to teach you the mechanics an the system. You are there to learn them. That’s the contract anyone of any merit signs explicitly or implicitly.[/QUOTE] Only the fist is forbidden, the rest of the style is not off limits: 
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=131
So is the question “how long does it take to learn and properly understand a whole style” or “how much instruction do you need before you can practice applying what you have learned”?
Cause you can start practicing on your own on day one. Of course you will have to go back time and time again to get all you need. But you know… baby steps. Learn something, use it, get good at it, get corrected if needed etc etc. Repeat.