How do you master several different martial arts in a very short time?

Dear all,
Is it possible for any one to tell me how can someone master several different martial arts while having a full time job & social life? I asked this question because some of the martial arts adverts I have saw where the instructors (masters) claiming to be teachers in several different martial arts. However, they are 28 - 40s years old. According to the traditional martial arts system, it takes at least 30 years of serious training before anyone can call themselves a master in the traditional martial arts system. There is no way those people can be masters of in several different martial arts, except:

1. they are conmen
2. jack of all trade and master of none
3. very talented genius.

Length of time to learn the whole system (able to use it in a fight)

Wing chun - about 4 &1/2 years, 5-7 hours a day practicing + fighing people.

boxing - at least a year before you fight in a ring, 2 hours per day.

kick boxing - at least a year before you fight in a ring, 2 hours per day.

Hung kuen - 8 -10 years, 5-7 hours a day practicing + fighting people

western fencing - at least a year before you fight in a bout, 2 hours per day training. 3 years later you can become an instructor.

average black belt - 3 years, 2 hours a day.

In the tradition Japanese martial arts - black belt means that you have just started to understand martial arts.

I have calculated that you need at least 22 years of serious training (8-10 hours trainging per day) in order to master 5 different oriental martial arts (knowing everything about them and reach a high level of standard in fighting). I mean knowing the history of the system, forms, fighting application, weapons and herbal medicine to cure yourself and your students.
You also need to find the time to practise the other martial arts you have already know, so that you will not forget about them. Therefore, how come there are adverts and seminar telling people that you can become a martial arts instructor or body guard after 1 or 2 day seminar!
I remembered seeing “Faking it in USA” several years ago, where a kinder garden school teacher without any martial arts training trained as a body guard in 4 weeks, 7-10 intensive training per day. She had passed her test by convincing the experts that she was a bodyguard. However, she got experts help and she did not have to fight anyone for more than 5 seconds in the test!
For example, for an average student to obtain a degree in any of the UK university, he or she suppose to have spend at least 3 years (full time) learning it. 7 hours in the class, 5 -6 hours doing the home work and reading your notes. To obtain 7 different degrees, you need at least 21 years to complete them + spending several years revising the other degrees you have already got. Therefore, you need at least 25 years to learn and retain all your knowledge in those 7 degrees.

The length of time needed to obtain 7 degrees should not be much different from learning 7 totally different martial arts. How did those instructors (under 40s) master 7 - 10 different martial arts system, while having full time jobs (not related to martial arts), social life and families?

Thank you
Hitman

First, some of your premises are wrong. ALL styles, no matter what they are should be functional in 12 to 18 months top, even Tai Chi.

Your Hung gar times are off the scale. You can learn JUST the techniques found first section of the first form and be taking names in 6 months with that style.

True mastery should be 9 to 10 years on a ful time schedule. (6 to 8 hours a day 5 days a week)

The other thing, related arts can be mastered simultaneously. For example, a Taii tzu player should be ablle to master Tong Bei and some form of Taiji Quan in the same time it takes him to master his Tai tzu because those arts are all connected both evolutionary, and thus in principal and technique.

Taiji comes from Tai Tzu, which comes from Tong Bei. Due to the vast similarities stemming from a common evolutionary root, one only needs to tack on the differences to get all 3 styles mastered in 10 or 12 years.

i wouldnt want to be a master of a style that isnt functional quickly

why waste time on something that takes years when you can learn what is applicable now ??

You can become functional in Hung-Ga in under a year. When I say functional, I mean you can attack and defend, and generate some good power. Higher attainments, such as evasive body,footwork, bridge sensitivity,short hand skills, faht-ging,and timing,etc obviously come with time. But it’s reciprocal-what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.

I began learning Sil Lum almost 15 years ago. I am still learning and would hardly call myself a master of any of it.

The fighting aspects and such were functional and usable in the first year though.

I don’t think you can “master” anything in a short amount of time, even potty training a kid takes a few months, learning to speak a couple of years, learning to speak well and be articulate is something that many if not most never actually grasp…

so, I wouldn’t expect to master an art form be it fighting or slinging paint or what have you in it’s entirety in a short period of time.

this is an unreasonable expectation to have of any art that is worth any merit at all.

there are no shortcuts, do the work or do without the results.

Some people learn faster than others, some people are natural martial artists.

There is this one guy that started grappling with no prior experience and turned into a beast in a couple weeks. I on the other hand am a slow learner, at least martial arts wise.

[QUOTE=golden arhat;870338]i wouldnt want to be a master of a style that isnt functional quickly

why waste time on something that takes years when you can learn what is applicable now ??[/QUOTE]he didn’t say 'functional" he said master. You can make an art functional with 4 or 5 techniques, but still not be anywere near mastering that art. That’s a difference lost on many of the bobble-head sceene.

he didn’t say 'functional" he said master. You can make an art functional with 4 or 5 techniques,

Beat me to it.

Functional is a whole different ballgame than whatever modality you cater the term master with.

Often they are not even equal in description. Meaning you can have some sort of mechanical mastery of an art form, the same as would a trained dancer, but not be able to apply anything you know in a real world context.

Length of time to learn the whole system (able to use it in a fight)

Reply]
This is another mis placed premise. You do not need to learn an entire system to be able to fight. You can learn all the core principals, tactics and strategies, and a hand full of the style’s core techniques (like all the techniques in the first form) and be fighting in 6-9 months.

If you add a ton of conditioning, structure, mechanics, resistance and competitive exercises and drill the crap out of the basics, with a schedule of 2-3 hours a day, 4 times a week, in 18 months you will be really good.

That basically is just working the first level of the style only, hardly even Black Sash level.

This is universal, no matter what the style.

Just want to point out that instructor does not equal master. Also, if you’re good at one style of martial arts, sometimes it’s very easy to learn another style if you want to. A lot of schools though don’t know how to develop a reasonable amount of athleticism and fitness in their schools, so you don’t really get many useful ability that would transfer to another training system.

How do you master several different martial arts in a very short time?

You don’t, you can’t and you shouldn’t try.

Mastery, highly unlikely.

However, being able to learn various arts by 40 is not impossible. I started at age 12-13. Took 1yr of Sil Lum. Transferred to Shoalin Kempo and at the same time was learning arnis. Did that for 4yrs while in H.S. Went in the military and started taking Tae Kwon Do. Did that for 4yrs. Then found another Shaolin Kempo school and was there for another 3yrs. as well as starting back up with Arnis. Left that school and took 2yrs of Ying Jow Pai and still continued taking Arnis. Left martial arts for 11yrs due to career and I am now back, 2yrs. taking Long Fist.

In this case I can put all of my experiences down on paper if I ever decided to open up a school and teach. I would never call myself a master though. Nor will I want to teach a hybrid of the arts I’ve learned.

I turn 41 in August.

surely the point when you call yourself a master is the point when you fail. theres always more to learn so to call yourself a master is just an ego stroke no ?

in the olden days south african dutch (abnd later afrikaans) we called any teacher ’ master’ (meester in afrikaans).

I think allot of people are way to hung up about the title.

who cares what people call you or themselves.

This question requires honesty.

It doesn’t take 30 years to become “a master”, though I would argue a true martial artist would never feel like they have mastered a style… there is always room for improvement, a need to do things differently to gain an advantage over the present standard.

I think the real question is what does it take to be… and then you have to be honest with yourself.

Do you want to compete at a high level today? Then you have to understand that there are guys who have devoted their life to training, professional kick boxers, MMAers and BJJ players. Not only are these people spending 6 to 8 hours a day on the mat and have their technique refined, their conditioning is like a world-class athlete. They are world class athletes. It’s not popular to say because it shatters many people’s world view, but these people would own most of us. I have the luxury of working from home, surfing all day and rolling BJJ hardcore three times a week… about to incorporate some Puerto Rican boxing… and it’s still not enough to compete at this level.

As for the ability to use Taiji or Hung Gar effectively in a year… again, honesty is required… use it against who? I would say your typical Taiji player would have their head handed to them by your typical high school senior football player, just because of their familiarity with violence and aggression and their conditioning. After a year, a Hung Gar player might be moving better, getting some power into their striking, but I wouldn’t get carried away.

Martial arts are relative. I have a propensity for this stuff since I started as a kid, but after a year of hardcore BJJ training, I just got tooled in San Juan this weekend at a seminar. No way I can compete with a similar aged/sized brown belt. No way.

There is no short cut. You have to spend countless hours training. Then you have to spend countless hours competing against others to force you to test your technique, see what works for you and why.

There is no simple answer. There is no Taiji in 12 month program. Even if you could find a “master” that could use their stuff (very hard to do) Taiji just doesn’t attract fighters. And in the rare case that it does, you still need like minded people next to you in class to train properly.

We all know what it takes to reach the level we want to reach no matter what it is. Be honest with yourself. I couldn’t be a wushu champion in 12 months. Likewise, some kid who turned to “kung fu” instead of more daily-combat oriented arts like Thai Boxing, boxing, kick boxing or BJJ isn’t going to dazzle a decent fighter in a few months. No way.

It takes a lot to be comfortable fighting. And to be honest, you don’t run into too many Kung Fu guys that have “it”.

[QUOTE=Black Jack II;870357]Beat me to it.

Functional is a whole different ballgame than whatever modality you cater the term master with.

Often they are not even equal in description. Meaning you can have some sort of mechanical mastery of an art form, the same as would a trained dancer, but not be able to apply anything you know in a real world context.[/QUOTE]Agreed.
In Pai Lum, you can become “functional” by working the individual techniques taught in the very first beginner’s form for a few days on a heavy bag. There are many, many more than that, though, just to master the begginer’s level. And mastering the begginers level isn’t mastering the art, it is just adding an orange fringe to your newby sash.;)

I would argue that even throwing crisp combinations on a heavy bag doesn’t necessarily make you a functional martial artist. The bag doesn’t strike back.

When you are calm, when it is an every day thing to enter and exit the pocket under fire, then you are on your way.

[QUOTE=Hitman;870334]Dear all,
Is it possible for any one to tell me how can someone master several different martial arts while having a full time job & social life? I asked this question because some of the martial arts adverts I have saw where the instructors (masters) claiming to be teachers in several different martial arts. However, they are 28 - 40s years old. According to the traditional martial arts system, it takes at least 30 years of serious training before anyone can call themselves a master in the traditional martial arts system. There is no way those people can be masters of in several different martial arts, except:

1. they are conmen
2. jack of all trade and master of none
3. very talented genius.

Length of time to learn the whole system (able to use it in a fight)

Wing chun - about 4 &1/2 years, 5-7 hours a day practicing + fighing people.

boxing - at least a year before you fight in a ring, 2 hours per day.

kick boxing - at least a year before you fight in a ring, 2 hours per day.

Hung kuen - 8 -10 years, 5-7 hours a day practicing + fighting people

western fencing - at least a year before you fight in a bout, 2 hours per day training. 3 years later you can become an instructor.

average black belt - 3 years, 2 hours a day.

In the tradition Japanese martial arts - black belt means that you have just started to understand martial arts.

I have calculated that you need at least 22 years of serious training (8-10 hours trainging per day) in order to master 5 different oriental martial arts (knowing everything about them and reach a high level of standard in fighting). I mean knowing the history of the system, forms, fighting application, weapons and herbal medicine to cure yourself and your students.
You also need to find the time to practise the other martial arts you have already know, so that you will not forget about them. Therefore, how come there are adverts and seminar telling people that you can become a martial arts instructor or body guard after 1 or 2 day seminar!
I remembered seeing “Faking it in USA” several years ago, where a kinder garden school teacher without any martial arts training trained as a body guard in 4 weeks, 7-10 intensive training per day. She had passed her test by convincing the experts that she was a bodyguard. However, she got experts help and she did not have to fight anyone for more than 5 seconds in the test!
For example, for an average student to obtain a degree in any of the UK university, he or she suppose to have spend at least 3 years (full time) learning it. 7 hours in the class, 5 -6 hours doing the home work and reading your notes. To obtain 7 different degrees, you need at least 21 years to complete them + spending several years revising the other degrees you have already got. Therefore, you need at least 25 years to learn and retain all your knowledge in those 7 degrees.

The length of time needed to obtain 7 degrees should not be much different from learning 7 totally different martial arts. How did those instructors (under 40s) master 7 - 10 different martial arts system, while having full time jobs (not related to martial arts), social life and families?

Thank you
Hitman[/QUOTE]

We may learn as many arts/styles as we want.

however, due to physical attributes/features of our body, we may only practice and excel in only one or just a few skills.

1. Tai Chi stress yielding aspect.

2. Xing Yi straight “marching” on.

3. Ba Gua walking and avoiding stepping.

each style stressing some key skills or tactics and strategy.

even among each style, practitioners are known for different skills.

1. Cheng Ting Hua was known for shuai jiao, so his ba gua is full of throws.

2. Yin Fu and Shi Ji Dong were known for luo han shou and tan tui. Their ba gua are full of fast punches and fast kicks.

3. Hang Qing Tan was very good in qin na. even thou he knew many other stuffs. He is still recognised by his qin na skills.

http://emptyflower.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=756

in short, we may practice and excel in only a few skills no matter how may stuff we would like to learn and “master”.

;):D:)

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;870430]I would argue that even throwing crisp combinations on a heavy bag doesn’t necessarily make you a functional martial artist. The bag doesn’t strike back.

When you are calm, when it is an every day thing to enter and exit the pocket under fire, then you are on your way.[/QUOTE]

Depends on who is inside the bag…

Tai chi likes to be like water.

Xing Yi likes to be a spear.

Ba Gua likes to be a wind.

–

:D;)