Royal Dragon … I know I’m going to get flamed for this because a lot of people subscribe to the idea that moving a heavy bag is an indication of power, but it isn’t. There is a point where a punch or kick ceases to be a strike and becomes a push. This is the point where the bag swings away from you.
When you strike a bag notice the amount of indentation your strike puts into the bag before it moves. This is the amount of power that is actually driven into your opponent. Also, walk up to a bag and give it a push and see how little power is needed to swing a bag. The most powerful striker I have seen can make a bag fold with their strike and even though the bag will jump, it does not swing. Increasing the weight of a bag will increase the indentation and decrease the swing thus creating the illusion of a powerful strike, but the strike itself has not changes.
To develop real power get a bag that represents the amount of resistance you would expect the average opponent to have and practice driving your power into it without pushing at the end.
Just get an airsheild, man. Bruce Lee style. If you have someone to train with, then they can move around a little and you can work your setup to attack and footwork, plus you can see if your kick is powerful enough to uproot someone for real.
-FJ
I got several of those, I’m short on training partners.
Besides, I don’t see how a heavyer bag WON’T increse your hitting power, especially if are careful to NOT push the strike. I understand the penatration thing, but really heavy metal shavings are going to require (and build) more power to displace, whether it be penatrating, or moving.
If I cab about fold a 600 pound bag in half, AND launch it half way to the ciling, don’t you think that’s some pretty D a m m hard hitting? (Assuming it’s even humanly possible to move THAT much wieght, and assuming I can actually HANG a bag that heavy).
remember, I’m getting the metal shavings for free, all I do is put them in the canvas bags I brought to work instead of throwing them in the scrap/recycle barrel. So to me I’m loosing nothing, and gaining a potentialy major training tool.
Sand, Recylced tire chips, metal fillings etc… All of these things are very very bad and only an uneducated student would even attempt to use such filler for a heavy bag!
go to a sporting good store and find a 100 lb heavy bag. open it up and you’ll find it is made in 3 layers with shredded rag cloth being the basic component. Cram enough of this into the bag and it creates a very firm, sufficently heavy and pratical training tool. The bag needs to give a little.
Do you want to hit an immovable object? Go beat on budokan’s tree. You’ll be able to do it every 6 months if you go full contact for 30 minutes.
Do you want hit with resistance 3-4 times every week. fill a heavy bag properly. (even then you may have problems - my right hand still aches from “boxer’s break” on occasion)
btw: Where do you hear such nonsense? One thing I hate about the martial arts, no “qualifications” any moron can teach others with little objection…
Ok, I’m ovbiously un educated, why would sand be bad now?
It’s heavy, and gives good resistance, as well as having enough give to prevent crushing your knuckels, and you can kick it with little fear of injury. Heck i have been known to side kick a concrete walls with little if any effect on me, so what would be the problem with a sand bag that is going to move and give?
Also, what kind of dammage would a bag filled with Iron filings cause if you only kicked it? (Not to mention punched.) It’s not that much harder than sand, and it does have a cushining give to it, it just offeres more resistance because of the wieght.
For most strikes I agree with Shaolintiger00. A standard heavy bag is enough in terms of density and weight, 100lbs is enough. I would tell you the story of my friend(you met him, he was built had the dog and went to the army you taught him san zhan) filling his bag with sand thinking the density and heavyness would be good. The side kick is a special kick. It can deliver allot of power. The down side is that it is easy to turn it into a push kick if you train it exclusivly or even allot on bags. Train the side kick on solid objects(assumeing you use the heel, some korean styles use the side of the foot). A good way to test the side kick is just to stomp your foot and let it bounce off the floor, that’s the way the side kick should hit a person.
I also agree with the statment about the 'folding" of the bag but you should also realize that as a result of the “folding” the bag should move a little. Some people use that example as an excuse for their weak strikes. As long as you are not swinging the bag you are fine.
"So to me I’m loosing nothing, and gaining a potentialy major training tool. "
Except your house when you knock it down, you will be hitting over half a ton remember that, can your house or garage or whatever handle that strain?
It depends on where I’m living then. Saviano has a custom made frame for his bag, and seems to do well with it. His fighteres are the hardest hitting guys I’v seen in the area.
SD,
I know what you mean by the floor bounce thing. You can really launch a guy like that.
I have actually found standing in the twisted horse stance with the lower knee an inch or less off the ground helps the side kick too as you are getting strength and flexibility or “Loosenes” from that exercise.
Sand would probably be even worse than metal fillings:
Sand is a granule. it packs together virtually airtight and void of any air pockets, becoming incredibly dense. (Your analogy of kicking a wall was pretty accurate, if you hard pack an entire heavy bag with sand, you might as well be kicking a masonry column. You kicking the wall- you are the one giving!, when you kick a person/sheild/heavy bag it gives, not you.
Sand gives if it has somewhere to go! If you fill the bag completely with sand there will be no give because there is nowhere to go, and beating on it will only make it pack harder, you’ll never “wear down” sand, its silica structure is too rigid. It will just settle and any tiny air pockets it did have will rise toward the top making it even harder.
not too mention that a normal 100 lb heavy bag filled with sand would weigh much much more.
Why would you want to use anything heavier than a “hard fill” heavy bag? The greatest strongest boxers/strikers of modern time use these bags. If there was a better way, don’t you think they would be using them?
“The greatest strongest boxers/strikers of modern time use these bags. If there was a better way, don’t you think they would be using them?”
Hmmm, could it be that there is no real comercial source for metal saw dust? I mean, as far as I know there is NO market for it. If there was, we’d be sellling it. Since there is no appreciatable market, NOONE sells the stuff, and the Boxers have no source in which to purchase it. If they HAVE thought of the idea, how would they go about implementing it?
I’m only doing it because I work in an enviroment that naturally produces the stuff as a byproduct of cutting steel to make parts for the product we manufactuer. If I had’nt had the Idea to save it, It would go in the scrap steel recycle bin like always, and the amount nessasry to fill the bag would NEVER be acumulated. I mean it’s taken me almost 3 years to fll 4 bags, and I need 6 to have enogh to fill the everlast bag I want.
I already have the 80 pound bag, and it works quite well. I figure if I fill it with sand, then it’s going to have a weight in between 80 pounds and the extreame 600 pounds. I would then work up to it slowly over time like progressive weight training.
I may never gett all 600 pounds though, I may mix sand and fillings together.
Also, the fillings have a consistancy of saw dust, and it compacts as tight as sand due to the fact that it’s mostly a metal dust from the saw. The little bags give like a sand filled puncing bag of the same size, only heavier.
You missed the point, it’s not the SIZE, it’s how HEAVY it is.
The bag is the SAME size as the Leather evrlast heavy bag.
It’s going to be so heavy because its being filled with metal sawdust from work.
I was practicing low kicks on one of the little bags today. It’s just sitting on the ground, not even hung up, but it’s so heavy that it’s still solid enough to actually use!!!
But your idea sounds like a waste of time and elbows, hands, knees and ankles to me. Whats the point?
The arguments you have offered in terms of increasing the power in your strike have been refuted by members of the board.
Somebody earlier said that 600 pounds was half a ton. Is that true? What is that in Kg? (Just so I can get some perspective)
Surely the point of a bag is to emulate a human target. This would be emulating Robocop. Yeah, being able to strike Robocop would give you a pretty mean strike on a human, but do you want to be able to hold a pen when you’re older?
You also say that you are not interested in Iron Hand training on the bag. Unless you are wearing extremly good shock absorbing mitts, that is exactly what you are going to get. But without the guidance and progression that should accompany that type of training.
Hey look, this is only my opinion, and everyone knows I don’t know ****.
You also say that you are not interested in Iron Hand training on the bag. Unless you are wearing extremly good shock absorbing mitts, that is exactly what you are going to get. But without the guidance and progression that should accompany that type of training.
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I already have an Iron Hand system. It uses a Mung Bean bag and progresses to Iron Shot. Thgat works on the fact that small round hard things penatrate deper into the hand when struck and stimulating growth throught that type of an impact and the assistance of an herbal formula. It’s basically to develop the strenght to withstand tremendious hitting force. The 600 pound bag (in my guess) would by what actually develops that hitting force. I think Iron hand would be essential to the program, otherwise you’ll hit someone and bvreak your own hand as well as thier face.
Besides, the metal saw dust is fine, and has very little penatrating power compared to hitting Mung beans, so I don’t think you would get anything more than superficial iron fist development anyway. It gives like hitting a sand filled bag, not a iron plate.
In the end, t’s the over all wieght that is the thing here. Some have mentioned that 600 pounds is TOO heavy, and will cause you to “Push” when you hit. They may be right, I don’t know as I’m still a good year of collecting [metal dust] away from actually being able to put this thing together.
Once I actuallly have enough Metal saw dust to fill the bag, I then have the problem of figuring out how to hang it.
Also, I thought 2500 ppounds was 1 ton, so my bag would be a 1/4 ton bag (Like th sounds of THAT!!!
Who was the Boxer that hit cattle carcasses on his farm? Was that Forman? I think it was. My having a 600 pound heavy bag would STILL be lighter than a 1000 pound slab of cattle on a hook that that guy used to hit. He ovbioullsy gained great benifit from hitting exceptionally heavy things.
I droped one of the little 100 pound bags on the concrete floor next to my work bench wile moving it to my car, and it actually shook the bench!!!
I think I’m going to rip a beam of of my house!! I was actually thinking of constructing a stand alone bag holder for it, something I KNOW will hold it. I may base it on the same design as an “Engine hoist”. We deffinatly have the steel stock at work to complete the project, not to mention the welders and other nessasary tools, I would just have to “Sweet talk” my boss into giving me enough material to do the job.
