How do you train your own stuff when nobody else does the style???

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Here is the quandary … if I could pick your fine brains for some ideas.

All of this is hypothetical, of course.

Let’s say you had a martial arts teacher who was very secretive, who didn’t teach anybody else his style but you. But he was old and couldn’t practice very much.

So how do you train your stuff? You could say, go train with others, right?

But let’s say you tried that, but the martial arts these people practice are kindof foobar, so you spend all your time correcting their stuff. Upon which time they are grateful, but you never get a chance to train your own stuff.

???

And you can’t open your own school or the old instructor gets p*ssed off and doesn’t want to teach you. What do you do?

2

First see a psychologist because you’ve been mindraped.
Then, put it all behind you and take up macrame.

3

Well, since he’s being so secrative, you must follow his example, and start a study group in secret. Don’t tell him. If he finds out, just say you are hanging out with your friends (because you are).

I have this issue, because there are no Tai tzu teachers near me. What i do is hang out with people who know related styles. Forexample, Shaolin Long Fist, and Taiji Quan both came from my style. The long fist is the more agressive aspects of it, and the Taiji the softer. So what I do, is work with Long Fist, and Taiji guys. When with one, I work on the aspects of my style that fit, and same goes with the other.

This allows me to work individual skills that are relavant to what I do, without abandoning it for something new. I consistantly look for moves that both my system, and my partners share in common, and focus on those.

4

Work out in your own backyard or public space (like a park or a gym aerobics room). Find a student or two to teach in case you want to work on partner stuff.

Just one question: why would you correct people from another school/style?

5

  1. you can’t correct students of another style, unless you have some history with that style. I can’t take my muay thai roundhouse and go correct someone whose kick comes from savatte…

  2. You can always train your stuff solo. when you want to spar, go to a boxing gym - they will be more than happy to oblige. Other than that, start a study group. Since it’s just a study group, you shouldn’t be “correcting” anything.

  3. continue to train your stuff on your own, but join another school. This will give you a few bodies to play with.

6

The thing is, how shall I put this …

A lot of people lean too far forward in their stances. Or too far backwards. They put themselves off balance executing movements … etc… they study moves that just take too long, like let’s kick him here, then punch him here, then lock him here…

Anyways, I just don’t know how to break it to the people that I don’t want to teach them, that it’s a waste of time. I guess I’ll do the west coast thing and lie.

7

Starting a study group in secret wouldn’t work, because it would get back eventually.

Where would you find decent long fist, though? Where would you find decent tai chi?

It’s like impossible to find. I’ve looked around a lot, and the martial arts that are around now are just crap. Basically, if you break it down, most of the teachers that still teach are only interested in money. They never have to use their stuff, so they don’t teach it well. Tai chi especially is mostly non martial arts types.

They don’t know what they’re doing. Is the bottom line.

8

You know, you can say that people are mindraped.

But do you really know?

Does the army of a country teach the same tactics as the special forces?

9

neil

[B]

Let’s say you had a martial arts teacher who was very secretive, who didn’t teach anybody else his style but you. But he was old and couldn’t practice very much.
So how do you train your stuff? You could say, go train with others, right?
[/B]

Well i wouldnt train with others if i was the only one being taught by an old master. I mean why would i? do i need to be validated by the other people i am training with? do i really NEED to be with other people when i train? I find it to be a distraction sometimes because my ego gets in the way of my learning, it happens to us all. “oh cr@p i didnt do that sequence correctly i wonder who saw, i wonder who is judging me. I mean i felt that a little bit when i took the seminar with those wudang monks and had to demo what i had learned in front of everyone else(i tried not to think about it) I guess my point is that if you are the only soul student of an old master and he is imparting to you knowledge then it should not be a factor training with other people.
but then there is the question “well how do i practically apply what i am learning?”” i have no training partners except for the master and he is up there in age and everything is just done lightly to show application, but i cant really test myself because i might seriously hurt the old man".
You see where i am going with this? This is your ego taking over all rational thought and mudding the water of clarity. If you feel like you need to test yourself then go to open tourneys and just spar and let it be that.
Most guys in the park who like to play kung fu usually are groups from a school going over material and hanging outside the realm of the school setting. Ive been to some groups where its a mixed bag of people training together, but those groups dont last long at all in my experience.

[B]

But let’s say you tried that, but the martial arts these people practice are kindof foobar, so you spend all your time correcting their stuff. Upon which time they are grateful, but you never get a chance to train your own stuff.
[/B]

i pretty much agree with the notion that you shouldnt really be the “corrector” or the “teacher” in a group of people who pretty much are strangers and are from either one school different from your old teacher(even IF the style is similar/same etc) what is the point anyway? and if you think that what they are doing is foobar then why are you there training with them in the first place? goes back to that ego validation thing i mentioned.

[B]

And you can’t open your own school or the old instructor gets p*ssed off and doesn’t want to teach you. What do you do?
[/B]

think about it, he is teaching you in the old traditional way. no school, no belts/sashes. as long as he is living you do things the way HE wants it to be done, if he wants to teach you his knowledge in a casual and private setting, then dont be so eager to start up a school and try to make the $$$. no wonder he will get ****ed off, obviously he doesnt like what schools have become and doesnt want YOU to follow in the same manner. Now when the old master passes on and you are left without a master, then you can pretty much do what you want from there, i guess. but are you truly respecting your master by doing what he really didnt want you to do in the first place? doesnt mean that you cant have students to teach, but he wants YOU to impart the knowledge in the same manner as HE imparted it to you.
Im sure that there are alot of old masters out there that are underground and that have a secret and small following of students, its done this way to protect the purity of what is being taught and keeps it out of the prying eyes of others who would seek to subvert,steal and modify the forms to fit their own ego and $$ making ventures.

        OK thats all for now.  man i cant get to sleep,,,,,Peace,TWS
10

The thing is, if you don’t drill stuff, then how do you know it will work, and how do you get familiar with it so you can use it in a fight?

But yeah, working with other people in other styles is useless, I guess.

Edit … and BTW there’s not many $$$ in having a school unless you start a big chain school like Shaolindo, I guess. I would never teach for the money.

11

[B]But yeah, working with other people in other styles is useless, I guess.

Edit … and BTW there’s not many $$$ in having a school unless you start a big chain school like Shaolindo, I guess. I would never teach for the money.[/B]

well Neil im not with the sd anymore so my comments are not based in that realm. so i would appreciate it if that reference is not made with respect to me and my opinions as they do not relfect upon that school or philosphy. plus it taints the thread for more of THEM to chime in.

There are a couple of solo schools here in austin whose teachers earn a decent living and they are not a big chain. they may have a couple of branches here and there but certainly not a mcdojo chain.

i read what you are saying about not teaching for money, if you have a decent career apart from your martial training then you can probably afford to,if you have the time, to teach and not request any monitary return.

The thing is, if you don’t drill stuff, then how do you know it will work, and how do you get familiar with it so you can use it in a fight?

like i said earlier, go to open tourneys and test yourself there if you are so interested in wanting to fight. or hey pick a fight in the street and test yourself there:rolleyes:

12

I didn’t know you were ex-SD. I just picked the first chain school that most people mention on here.

Testing is not drilling. Drilling is not fighting. Fighting is something entirely different.

Edit …

Anyways, you know, it not really worth worrying about. Because if most experienced martial artists suck so bad, then the guy on the street must be pathetic.