I’m teaching a womens self defense class for a local feminist group and want any advise I can get. What do you folks think is most important to go over? I have 2 more 2 hour classes. It’s being done in as a skill share kinda format. Its really open and everyone tells stories or shares experience or ideas. I’m not much of a grappler yet so I especially need advise on whats most important teach for ground fighting/rape prevention. Any advise would help! Thanks
Commen sence.
Might sound kinda obvious but its amazing how much of these type of things most people dont know.
Stay out of shadows, avoid alleyways, walk on the outside of the footpath, try to be aware of the people around you at any given time, never stand with your back to a potensial threat, never let anyone you dont know within your person space, dress and how it can affect movement, potensial weapons.
Then i would go though signs to look out for and how to regonise a genuine threat.
I would also work on first strike mentality and insure that all of them realise this is not ‘fighting’ its ‘escaping’.
Try and work on things that will either avoid the situation in the first place or will give your students an oppontunity to run.
The main advice i give ANY female friend when it comes to fighting are two fold.
1 Use ALL available weapons, keys shoes credit cards handbags ANYTHING!
2 Go strait at the eyes thought or groin forget everything else, speaking as a male i will tell you now. If i tried to attack a women and she was totaly concerned with kicking my nuts into my stomach i would simply pick someone else.
Most rapists and people who prey on women are actualy cowards and are frightened off fairly easily. If they get the impression there chosen target may put up a good fight or may make excessive noice its likely they will simply pick someone else.
I taught my best friend who is female most of this stuff in one afternoon. The very next night some PR!CK tried to rape her, she shoved her thumb into his voicebox and kicked him hard in the nuts, just as i had recomended. It provided her with enough of a gap to run into a more populated area and get help.
Thats an honest true story. It was lucky she still had most of the stuff fresh in her mind, she is still my best friend - thank god.
good advice jon. how goes things? 
david
You have VERY little time there to teach self defense.
I would focus on developing “non victim” habits, and escape techniques.
The easy stuff is the escape techniques. Focus FIRST on what happens when they get to the ground. Mount escapes, side mount escapes, bridging, shrimping. Then move to deploying a weapon from the ground. How do get to your mace, knife, keys, etc. Then focus on what targets to attack when you are on the ground.
THEN go to stand up. How to cover yourself, how to step away, getting off the line of attack. Then how to deploy a weapon, and then what targets to aim for when you are standing.
Developing anti victim habits are the hard part, as it deals with an entire lifestyle change. But it’s the important part. There are numerous text that deal with this topic and dozens of teachers that have good material out there.
JWT
Good advice, jon.
I think you are correct re the psychological profile because crimes of this nature are ones of domination/abuse against a perceived weaker victim. A permutation of this: an attacker who would get off on the girl who fights back. Either way, your advice about maintaining personal space can buy psychological and real time. Not letting one’s self be cornered in mind or body.
Advice I offer. If someone is getting too close, be conscious of your own body position to give maximum freedom of legs and arms. For instance, not to put both hands drawn to and in front of chest, elbows dropped straight down and bent. An inexperienced woman might do this thinking that would be a good way to maintain distance. It’s a good way to get both your wrists grabbed in one hand.
Cody
Good posts everyone.
This will be my last post for today probably.
The man who gets off on a woman who fights back is a very real possibility. Men don’t rape women because they want to have sex, they do it because they hate them. Plain and simple terms.
First off, rape prevention does need groundwork. It’s a must in my opinion, but not in the manner of BJJ…although I would cover guard, mount escapes, shrimping, kino mutai, and being able to draw a weapon undetected from a grounded position. (This has danger to it however, in that the person can use the weapon against the victim too.)
Groundfighting for rape prevention should cover realistic positions they will find themselves, (i.e. guard) but should focus on eye gouging, biting ears, nose, throat, blocking strikes the man may throw at her from the ground, etc.
There is a misconception that a man will simply grab a woman and try to hold her down in a rape. That’s untrue. He will a lot of times brutalize her. That means punching her face, jumping on her ribs, groundpounding her, etc. It’s disgusting and cowardly, but very real. Women need to know a few athletic ways to handle that aggression.
So let’s cover that once again. Teaching ground techniques geared to rape defense should be on escaping first and foremost. Mount escapes (good ones!) side control escapes, bridging, and tactics from the guard like eye gouging, biting, etc. IF THE WOMAN IS IN A INFERIOR POSITION ON THE GROUND, EYE GOUGING MIGHT GET HER BEATEN UP BADLY. This is what grapplers are talking about.
To eye gouge someone well and effectively in real life, you need control of that person.
Awareness:
Street awareness is crucial. The Q&A idea is a good one. I like the opportunity for women to discuss and explain scenarios they went through for real. Good awareness deals with understanding
the environment, escape routes, how to locate witnesses, etc. You need to know proper tactics for encroachments, unwanted advances, “strange” questions (often times trying to distract the victim.) etc. Don’t make them paranoid, but make them realize self-defense is very real.
Targets like eyes, nose, groin, and throat are good. These targets can be hit by surprise, and are most effective that way.
go over escape and cover. Spend time talking about looking for escape routes, where to run, etc.
A lot of the self-defense for women stuff is almost “fun” in a way… and it doesn’t really make the woman understand the immediate violence that happens in such crimes. Some people (and especailly a few movies I just detest :mad: ) tend to make people think kidnappers, criminals, rapists are “struggling internally”, “need a friend” etc.
The reality is at that moment they want to hurt and violate you. It’s the most immoral and dispicable thing they can do. You have to understand the seriousness of it. But that seriousness can be held in a nice atmosphere, friendly discussions, and good hard training.
Good luck
Ryu
Thanks for the input. Please keep it coming.
what have you been teaching so far? i gathered from your original post that you’ve already taught a session(s).
stuart b.
Sort of a sick one
So far, there has been some really good posts on this topic already!
Lets face it though, even between going for the eyes etc..on the ground a woman is at a major disadvantage, dirty tricks may not come even close to allowing her to escape once held on the ground.
If the woman is going to be raped, or whatever, it sometimes works to discust the attacker. If the woman defa(ates on themselves, or urinates, or even vomits, this may turn the attacker off, or at least give them an opening to do something so they may get away.
regards,
Gary
Ramblings…
Since the others covered most of the good stuff…
Don’t take this wrong but self defense is a serious subject and I don’t think your format is the way to teach self defense. Self defense is an ongoing process that is more mental than physical. The longer you learn the mental & physical aspects of self defense the better.
Do you have a background in teaching self defense? If not use your martial arts knowlage to find a good instructor for your group. Check with your city or county womens abuse office and see if they have any qualified trainers.
One thing to teach them is not to be stupid. Criminals & creeps don’t care about your rights, don’t care for your right to walk any street at night, don’t care for your right to express your beliefs, don’t care for your right to sleep with a window open, in short they don’t care about you at all. So make sure that the number one thing in their mind is getting home in one piece. If that means walking around a bad neighborhood instead of going through it then walk around it. If it means buying fido cheaper dog food so they can ride a bus home then do it. I’ve seen people put themselves in danger because it was their “right” to do something, go somewhere or say something.
The badguys & gals may have also been watching you and know your routine. See someone twice co-incidence, see someone three times and it’s a red flag.
The best self defense is common sense, awareness and avoidence. Know the territory. Any gangs, bad bars, or hangouts around? If yes avoid them.
Don’t get into a fight with your attacker. Your goal is to get away not get revenge, make a point or save the next person coming down the street. You are not Xena, Warrior Princess.
Also make sure that you teach them not to think of themselves as victims, it’s a mind set that is self-fulfilling. My wife who has zero martial arts knowlege but has a survivor attitude has fought off one rapists/mugger, and has sent several gropers running on NYC subways and the LIRR, and had enough smarts and cool to foil a kidnapping attempt. She will do whatever it takes to survive and protect our kids and will not take sh!t from anybody including me. A good mindset is key to survival.
I see that you’re an activist and you’re teaching a feminist group, probably have some lesbians in the group, remind them that in that world they may be brutalized by a woman rather than a man.
Buy everyone these books, The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, and Street E & E by Marc MacYoung. The first is a must, the second has some good tactics.
Good Luck
Not enough time…
How long are most “Women’s self-defense classes”
I’ve seen day long (8 hour) seminars
I’ve seen month long 2 hour seminars (8 hours)
I really feel that this type of instruction places a misconception
of confidence in the women attending.
As Jon pointed out, his friend had the stuff fresh in her mind the
next day. Lucky for her. But what if she had not trained the stuff for a couple of months and then it had happened? Would she have had the same reactions?
I don’t think so.
Do we train a new student for a month and then let them go full contact, no gloves, no rules?
I don’t think so.
I think in an earnest attempt to help and educate women we
actually make a mistake in the day seminar or even the month
long weekly class.
How can 8 hours make a physical difference? It might open some
eyes and make them more aware (BTW I totally agree that it is
the psychology/lifestyle that needs to change. If people in
general, not just women, were just a tad bit more aware of what
was actually going on around them then there would be a lot less
victims in the world.) but can 8 hours train them physically for an
encounter. Hell no.
So what’s the answer? I don’t know. I think the single woman it
does benefit is reason enough to keep doing it. But what about
the woman who has a false sense of confidence?
A tough question, one i’ve tried to think about a lot ( in case you
didn’t notice )
hoppin’ of the soapbox
Matt
My backround is in american karate and then I switched to kung fu about 4 or 5 years ago. I have some teaching experience. The feminist group organized this themselves and had originally had a female instructor but decided to have me take over. I taught one class and have 2 more to teach. The’yre going to start having class again after that. It’s set up to be in 6, 2 hours classes and then to start from the beginning again to welcome in new women. I also do a self defense skill share at my house but only a few people have stuck arround. I’ve encouraged all the ladys in the class to study a martial art or take any self defense class they can outside of myself too. They’re mostly students and working girls and I offered to do this free for them and any members of the community they can bring in. I’m not trying to instill any false sense of confidence and have offered to teach more often if they want. Unfortanately not everyone sticks arround long term to gain the skills they need and to study for life but I’m trying my best to help share my skills and empower women in the most imediate way I can. I’m trying to cover everything I can and certainly the mental and physical aspects of self defense. I take this very serious and I’m trying to instill the seriousness of self defense in they’re thinking. This is the best format the group can have right now being a grass roots activist group without money. We train in a park right now. It’s intended to be an ongoing thing and not just the next 2 classes. Thanks for everyones and imput and I hope that clears some stuff up. Please keep it coming. Mark
Mark
Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking what you were doing, I
wasn’t. In general I think it is a good thing to do anything
that will help. I’ve just seen too many women come out of
seminar’s really pumped up and ready to take on the world,
mostly due to a lot of hype from who ever was teaching.
like I said, tough question and props to you for doing what you
can. Offering something like that as a year round continueing
ed type of thing is the way to go.
Matt
Teach a woman the same way you would teach a man.
My personal opinion is that as you are limited by time and comittment from the students that you should focus on keypoints such as have been mentioned.
Awareness, evasion, avoidance etc.
Maybe break it down for the tactile self defense segment where you focus on a specific number of workable techniques and drill them to death. I would personally arrange a few techniques which dealt with close and very close range techniques.
Encourage them to study more and to always practice.
peace
Sounds like you’re on the right track Mark. I agree with that Canadian Kung Lek, (one day you all will be the 51 state KL:D ), small amount of techniques and mucho teaching of awareness and escape.
How about we come up with some drills to teach this stuff for Mark?
One easy one is to take them to different places, like a park, a quiet part of town or just around the neighborhood and just walk. Every once in a while stop and say, “If you were a mugger or rapists, where would you attack from, when would you attack and maybe where would you take your victim?” Have the group analyze the answers. This will help train them to see possible danger zones.
It’s not BS it’s actual psychological studies.
Of course rape is a sexual action, but the motivation that goes through most men’s minds in a rape is that they want to hurt, dominate, and humiliate the woman in question.
Rapists a lot of times have a selected “victim” in mind. They fantasize about her, stalk her, etc.
Rape is a power thing, it is not a mutual exchange of sexual feelings. Only an idiot would think that.
Rape is about power, dominance, and dealing with feelings of hatred, rejection, and humilation from women.
It sounds like you have no real understanding of the subject.
Do some research, talk to real rape victims, and see what you find out. Have you met anyone who has been raped?? I have.
Several times.
Your attitude and uneducated viewpoints are what endangers women.
Ryu
That’s BS from the modern “politically correct” movement. Sex is sex, rape is for sex whatever the associate emotion or lack of it.
Stumblefist is incorrect. An army of sex offendor and victim therapists say otherwise, and it has nothing to do with being “politically correct”.
Rape and sex assault have more to do with the perpetrator’s desire for power and control over another human being than it has to do with satisfying a sexual desire. The perps receive have a sexual response to the feeling of power, and not because they are “attracted” to the victim. They also use the sex act as a weapon to violate another person in the most intimate way possible because, again, it makes them feel powerful.
If it just boiled down to a guy wanting sex, he’d be more motivated to purchase the services of a prostitute than to risk a 20 to life prison sentence through forcible rape.
Here’s something to put it into perspective:
The youngest victim of sex assault in my home state was a 2 1/2 week old infant, while the oldest victim was an 82 year old woman. The perps of both crimes were in their mid-twenties.
Now tell me exactly what is physically attractive to a guy in his twenties about an infant and a grandmother? The answer is nothing. However, the perps were able to gain a rush of power from the violent domination over, and violation of, another human being. Every other act of sex assault comes about from the same motivation and need for power.
Teach a woman the same way you would teach a man.
I respectfully disagree. Since women are physically, psychologically, and emotionally built different than men, trying to instruct them the same way as men is ultimately fruitless.
Another thing:
While Jon has good advice, it doesn’t cover the issue well. 80-90% of most sex assaults are committed by someone the victim already knows and has a relationship with. Therefore, teaching them a bunch of stuff in a limited time-frame setting that deals with “stranger rape” scenarios will cover only 10% of assault situations.
The sad fact is that women have to be more worried about their current boyfriends, Uncle Ted, or Cousin Bill than they do Joe Stranger.
This leads to another issue:
Teaching eye-gouges, nut stomps, and other such tactics is all well and good, but women have a hard time translating the will to do this stuff to a stranger over to someone they know. A woman may have no problem spooning out Joe Stranger’s eye, but will hesitate or break when she has to do that to Uncle Ted.
Therefore, in light of the above, more time should be spent teaching the psychology behind building your own self-awareness, and drawing those physical and psychological “barriers” - those lines you won’t let ANYONE cross, no matter who they are. You have to teach the will to use whatever tactics you are demonstrating.
Like my Pops taught me, “Guns don’t mean **** if there is a coward behind the trigger”. The same can be said for ANY physical tactic. Survival is in the will.
Beyond that, woman need to be taught about “Rape Culture” and how they are socialized to be seen as objects, and how not to allow themselves to be maneuvered into that mentality.
Anyone who actually wants to learn more about these issues should put in some volunteer time at their local woman’s shelter or victim advocate group. Doing so will clear up a lot of myths perpetuated by society at large.
Ryu’s comments the types of groundfighting tactics to be taught are right on the money.
FistOfTheNorthSide:
I teach an ongoing, fully accredited Self-Protection for Women course through my local college, and have also co-authored a text book with a licensed family therapist. I may have some material that can help you. I would also like to know more about the organization you are teaching for.
Shoot me an email at watchman9@hotmail.com
Ryu, could you also shoot me a message as well - I lost your address.
Where the hell have you been man!!!
does the welcome back dance
now where the fu.ck is seven.
P.S. Ryu is correct.
Dr. Watchman I presume??
Watchman!
Out of the shadows man, where have you been??
That was a beautiful post. The best on the thread in my opinion.
Sure I’ll shoot you an email.
Ryu