Help me choose an art!!!

No Know…what the hell are you talking about? :slight_smile: Movement is key to taijutsu..i know how to move. But i also know how to hit, throw, break, stomp, etc…that is the point, in western aikido they DO NOT. They dance…practice dancing and you are a good dancer. that’s the bottom line. you can walk into an aikido dojo here where the teacher has only taken aikido and throw a jab- cross to lay him out. Don’t get started on i should understand this or that.. We practice aikido type flow (with variation obviously)and know that its nice to talk concept but entirely different to face a knuckle sandwhich without anything but a defense against a downward attack or a light sleave grab. Aikido locks and movement are nice IF pulled off…most people don’t hang on, allot of people will smother or ground you. I’ve really tried to find good tough aikido in what is taught around these parts…unfortunately, i see allot of people mislead.

p.s- you can oly move soo much before you are a sitting duck and there is nothing wrong with a stomp kick once you’ve moved to be able to lay it in!

I am with rolling elbow, I would not tell my worst enemy to take Aikido for self defense, well maybe my worst enemy, and I would never tell a total beginner looking for quick self defense to check out Aikido.

If you are going to look into joint locking arts, look at the one that Aikido came from, Daito-Ryu Aiki JuJitsu.

Krav Maga has a few different branches in the US but the WWII stuff that comes down from Imi Lichtenfeld is simple, brutal and quick to the point, the exact critera you wanted in your opening question.

From what I have seen of Krav Maga is excellent, though make SURE the material is the one taught and used by Imi Lichtenfeld, the one which is taught to the IDF, Israeli Police and Security Services. Imi Lichtenfeld had a amazing background, he was born in Czechoslovakia, his father was a circus acrobat and wrestler, and later a chief detective inspector of the police.

Imi inherited his fathers passion for combative sports and he took up wrestling and boxing with competitive success, when fascism preceding WWII came around he found himself engaged in the realities of street survival, often in defense of Jews against gangs.

From those experiances he came to understand the nature of actual combat as opposed to competitive combat sport and it was this knowledge that he took with him to Israel when he emigrated there.

Once in Israel, Lichtenfeld joined the Hahanah, the precursor to the IDF, and was put to task instructing new recruits in unarmed close combat, his job was to transfer totally serious fighting skills to a mixed bag of soliders of various ages and fitness levels, the result Krav Maga.

Krav Maga like other good war-time combat based systems, had nothing extraneous in its training program, there was no time nor need, in its training programme it quickly gave an individual a practical body of unarmed combat skills through a realistic period of instruction.

Lichtenfeld went on to become the cheif instructor for the Military School for Physical Training and Krav Maga of the IDF, a position he held for over 20 years. Which means from the humblest infantryman to Israel’s battle tested special forces, all IDF soliders benefit from Krav Maga training.

Just make sure its the direct Lichtenfeld sylabus.

Oh, if ur interested I got to where it was posted on Russbo.

heres the site, if ya don’t want to walk there and check it out. :slight_smile:

Amituofo :slight_smile:

G.

I like the advice on picking the teacher more than the style. It would be interesting if you reported back to this forum and told us your impressions.

I am really trying to lay low since i realized what a big, uneducated mouth i used to (still) have; but i really gotta say i’m surprised at some of the answers. makes me wonder how many actual kung fu folks actually post on here.

NYC is a kung fu mecca, probly second only to the Golden Mountain aka San Francisco.

I can’t believe how few schools are actually being mentioned in this thread.

Flushing’s Queens right? There’s a branch of Yee’s Hung Ga right around the corner. I think you can access the website at www.yeeshungga.com (but if that don’t work, just search on google).

That would be my first recommendation; but New York has so MUCH! Tony Yang, Carl Albright, northern praying mantis, southern praying mantis, hung gar, bagua, baji, hsing yi, taiji, bak mei, choy lay fut, hop ga (tibetan white crane), hung fut…all a short walk, subway ride, or train ride away!

I know you’re still new, but don’t get so set on the monks. Visiting all the sifus is a good idea. So is waiting to check out a tournament; where you can see a bunch of the styles in action.

Good luck!

(now it’s time to burrow back into my hole)

Jow

You are correct. I would give my left nut for the cma that nyc has to offer. However, the majority of cma styles take a while for one to become an effective fighter. I’m sorry but if someone wants to learn to fight and doesn’t have much time to become effective then MOST cma are not the best option…IMO.

Argh… 3 posts in one day… can’t…resist…the…temptation…

I am not really qualified to speak on this, or qualified to give my opinion on anything for that matter…but i think it’s all in how you train.

I think it was Tim Cartmell who had some video clips on his site of what he was able to do with 6 months worth of training in hsing yi (correct me if I’m wrong, sorry to whoever it was). Shooter’s another guy who’s produced a decent (if not good) fighter in a short period of time with video evidence.

In my own, novice guess-timation, I think if the sifu really stressed lots of development of some easy to use tools/basics, introduced contact early, and simplified the kung fu style’s strategy for a newbie in the ring, that newbie could be a pretty decent ring fighter pretty quickly.

You hear stories of “old fashioned” schools where students were “limited” to stances, 2 man drills, lots of basics work with simple strikes, as well as some fighting- for months on end, sometimes years. Yet these same schools produced good fighters.

I read a quote from a kfo member that really interested me. He said in the old days kung fu wasn’t about getting that next form. I also really agree with nospam’s thread on forms being the bane of modern kung fu. Of course there are benefits for forms, I’m just using the scenario of a lot of students’ “race to finish all the forms” as one possible reason for the long “gestation” period of kung fu fighters’ fighting ability.

I have no experience to speak from, but I really recommend reading posts from guys like nospam, subitai, bean curd, df, je lei sifu, illusionfist, straight blast, clfnole, lawclansman, count, shooter, and a few others… as these folks really seem to have some skill & know how to use what they got- at least what i can tell from their posts.

ewallace, interesting that you live in San Antonio. My folks live there and I was there for about 6 months while i was waiting on a job. Mighta been fun to hang out.

I’m probly going to regret this as it is…
last one for sure…

No need to regret it, it was a good post.

Of course it always depends on the teacher, just as much as the fighter depends on the fighter, not the style. My opinions stated above were a generalization.

Re: Don’t pick the style.

Originally posted by LiteBlu
Don’t pick a style. Check them all out and go to the one with the best teacher.

Best advice in the thread!

Hey LittleChina,

In my opinion, stick with kung fu. It will curb your concerns of street fighting as well.

There’s a Shaolin temple in Flushing run by Shi Guolin on:
131-11 41st Avenue
tel. 718-539-0872

Call the school and talk to them. Your learning will go beyond.

Good luck.

WARNING: Generalisation below.

If you have a limited timespan, Kung Fu would not be a good option, as it’s movements usually take longer to develop especially something internal like XingYi.

As for Wing Chun, that’s simple and direct, a good choice, but make sure you’re aware of grappling, boxing and development of EXTERNAL power.

Krav Maga and Mhuy Thai will probably make you a better fighter faster than the others there, just through the effectiveness of the basic moves. If you can afford to train long term I’d advise a style of Kung Fu.

Leave Aikido alone.

Most importantly see each style and school personally. Pick the one that feels best in terms of movements, routines, teacher, fellow students, location etc.

You’ll be there for a long time probably - pick a good 'un :slight_smile:

Rolling-Elbow

Do you hit, throw, stomp, etc. as good without moving? This person seems new and while you might need more than moving, stalling beats how well a beginner might use early techniques in much of what was mentioned, in an unfriendly fight.. LittleChina would have natural fighting if it came to it. But movement wouldn’t come as favorablly. You practice Aikido like flow. And after you Move to lay it in is O.K. But could you lay it in as good without moving? I recommended that LittleChina learn moving first and you say what am I talking about? You indicate that Aikido is like dancing, where you are. And you’ve been disappointed with Aikido. LittleChina has direction in training. Many who go to the any old Aikido school, don’t know what to expect-ish or would like and go with the flow. LittleChina would like to be able to fight and would theoretcally use even dancing to an advantage if caught in a fight.

The locks and grabs are not likely to work out for LittleChina at this place but it would be practice in getting hands-up and intercepting incomming. And Aikido people, even the dancers get used to contact and people coming towards them.

I would have to agree to a great extent with what someone said about choosing a teacher rather than a system, but assuming that there are top quality teachers in every system I would give the following advice:

If you’re interested in learning to defend yourself quickly, but not go to deeply in to a martial art, I’d recommend Sambo or Muay Thai or Krav Maga (in that or der of preference).

When you believe you’re ready to jump into the bottomless pit that is CMA, I’d start with Wing Chun and move on to find a CMA that suits your character/fighting style - It is by no means a ‘simple’ art but it seems easy to “get into” (can’t think of a better way to put this right now).

BJJ and Aikido are excellent arts in themselves, but a lot of people (myself included) find that its not for them. Personally, I needed something more direct and aggressive (a striking art). Having said that, I’d still recommend learning some BJJ, at some stage in your life. It is important to know how to handle yourself on the ground. Aikido skills (throws, jointlocks) are also very useful to know.

Make sure to inform us of what system you decide to take up, when you make the decision.

Good Luck!!

Le Noobi is correct about me being correct.

I’d reccomend shopping around more butit can be hard to find a good school for a complete begginner. if you are interested in CMA then training with Shi Goulin isn’t a bad idea, if nothing else it will give you a solid foundation for later styles. NYC is so rich with CMA you are sure to find somthing.

If you live in the city, you can pretty much learn any style that you want. Youre list is just the beggining.

Anything, from Aikido to Savate.

I envy you!!!

Now go enjoy the MA smorgasboard. GO!

CMAs in NYC are tricky though. Most of these guys that teach are full of crap.

Well I’m going to check out SiFi Allan Lee’s school in Flushing. I’ve heard good things about them and as one of the only Duncan Leung related teachers in NYC I think its something I should consider.

No, it’s jsut that there are lots and lots of closed-door establishments there. Theres good stuff, you just have to look for it.

Well this is how i see it.

Compred to the Japanese Arts, Kung Fu arts are not very organized… as in no one really knows who was taught by who and who really knows what.

For example, there are a whole bunch of Wing Chun schools in NYC but 95% are taught by incompetent.

Japanese Arts on the other hand, most dojos can say that their Sensei’s were taught by or certified by the head of the art (ex. Aikikai Organization).

P.S. I heard some good things about Daito Ryu JuJitsu but it seems that no schools around here in NYC.

Renzo Gracie teaches BJJ in the city at his acedemy but I have a feeling he charges like an arm and a leg to train with him.

Even in a bad school, a GREAT martial artist can develop.

If one regularly tests his moves out in the appropriate way and QUESTIONS his techniques, he’s going to get a lot out of the training.

I’ve seen so many guys who study formally at great schools (not just in kung fu) who don’t get the most out of their training. And I’ve seen just as many guys that never did who DO.

Whatever school one goes to, he should seek to apply his techniques against resisting opponents (or at least test the style in the proper manner). That’s how one figures out what works and what doesn’t on an INDIVIDUAL basis.

Just because Grandmaster X says a technique works for everyone in history doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll work for you. That’s for you, the student, to find out.