I was wondering of all you readers out there who use the sash grading system and how it is laid out. Also if there is anyone from the Dunn Wah(Sunny Tang) lineage and how there system is laid out.
We use the following grading system in my family:
White Sash
This shows that you have completed the SNT correctly, have done some drills, Single Arm Chi Sao and started on Double-Arm Chi Sao
Red Sash
This shows that you started the CK and are competent at shifting stance, Chi Sao is getting better, etc. Pole drills, battle punching.
Blue Sash
Completed CK, beginning BJ and the Mook Jong, Pole.
Black Sash
Junior Instructor Level. Finished BJ, finishing Mook Jong and Pole, working on Knives.
Black II Sash
Senior instructor. All knowledge and drills are done. Perfecting stage.
Gold Sash
Honourary level. Need to be teaching for a couple of years, given by your Sifu.
I understand that many people don’t use grading systems and I realize why. Just wanted to compare sash systems and was curious as to how the Dunn Wah/Moy Yat families that use the sash system lay things out.
Yes we use a traditional sash system (although we dont wear sashes themselves!)
Red Sash - SLT - 4 levels
Green Sash - Chum Kiu - 4 levels
Brown Sash - Biu Jee - 4 levels
Black - Weapons / Instructor - 4 levels
This is a fleeting description , let me know if you need more details.
That said, grades obviously are meaningless unless you put in the work, and nobody grades automatically. They have to prove themselves and have the correct attitude.
I have always embraced the no belt/sash system. Why does everyone feel the need for these empty status symbols. All it means is you have completed certain curriculum. Big deal.
We should examine our need to feel confirmation of what we are learning. I find it when I pull a move off smooth. Or hadle myself well during sparring. I don’t care what belt they are or wether or not they know the butterfly sword apps. If they are not developing skill what is the point.
When people ask me what belt I am I say none.
Then they say how long have you been training. Then I tell them.
Then they ask are you good? I say try me.
The last question is all they really wanted to know.
If you train kungfu you should not be interested in belts even if the school has a system. Your skills are all that counts.
I know I hijacked the thread. I couldn’t help it. Because in the end I would care nothing about my own belt system, never mind someone elses.
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Moy Yat never used a Sash or other grading system. Ving Tsun, being a civilian art, never borrowed the military’s need for such classifications.
A very small number of his students, for reasons of their own, chose to adopt forms of grading systems, usually borrowing the Sash used in other styles. To determine where/why, you would have to ask them individually. However, once you know the background of each person, you can usually guess pretty accurately where they got it from.
For my SiHing Sonny, he’s very big in the WuShu world and probably adopted it from there.
A few of my SiHings have a plaque which has “7 level” or something like that on it. However, those plaques were actually made up by one of my SiHings. Even fewer is the number who chose to hang it up.
The closest Moy Yat came to a grading was simply by name of each Ving Tsun form: SiuNimTao, ChumKiu, BiuJee, MoyFahJong, LokDimPoonKwan, BaatJaamDoa. These, to him, were not whether a person could do the choreography of the particular form but whether a student actually had the appropriate skill set as laid out by the VingTsun method of progression.
I don’t see something inherently wrong with any sort of grading system. I do however see something wrong with a need for a test at each level. In my opinion, at whatever level you can perform is the level you are at. Still, I don’t see anything wrong with having a party to celebrate any achievements. Outside of the military’s use of rank, all this sash stuff is just for fun anyway.
I like grading systems because they force the student to work extra hard when they know a “test” is coming.
What I don’t like about grading systems is that their importance in determining rank and overall skill is overdone…
have known a lot of people who have either not taken any tests…or only took a limited amount of tests…and their total knowledge AND OVERALL FIGHTING ABILITY surpasses certain other people who have a bunch of certificates, ranks, and other credentials…
whether it be in wing chun or some other martial artists I’ve known.
In the final analysis, though…I’m in favor of a grading structure.
Otherwise…there would be even more chaos and false claims of achievement than we have now.
The main value of belts/sashes is to help the instructors keep students on a curriculum. If you have a lot of students, and they come and go from time to time, as they tend to do, it helps you quickly know at a glance, who should be working on which stage of a progression in any given session.
A Blue Sash is not necessarily more skilled than a red sash, or whatever. Although some people seem to have a problem with that concept.
I really want to thank Tom for his explanation of the Sash’s in the Moy Yat system, and I believe the same, that Tang Sifu is using an adopted system.
I recently received a sash level from my Sifu, but it wasn’t a grading or anything…he lined us all up and told us in a “sash” way that we were progressing. Very informal and very nice in the least!
My Sifu told us all that the grading system is more for him than for us. Although, he still touches hands with his students for hours at a time in an evening of training.
Thanks again for sharing.
I came from a very militant karate background where if you were doing something wrong or were misbehaving…knuckle pushups were the cure of that. Then I went to a few other schools, most having a strict grading structure.
I will be the first to admit that the hardest thing about learning my wing chun now is letting go of that conception of grading. Also, I’m really used to workouts filling in the time instead of learning what I’m paying and coming for. I guess what I’m saying is that it was really hard to transition to train in relaxed environment.
My learning curve in this semi-private relaxed environment has shot up more than I ever could have thought, though. And if I didn’t wade through the swamps in the past, I wouldn’t appreciated the crystal waters I’m in now.
