Good Butterfly Knife Substitute

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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Hi Guys!

I do some western martial arts training as well as WCK. My favorite weapon to work with is the good ole american bowie knife. Many of you probably don’t realize that during the Civil War, the confederate soldiers were partial to a style of knive called the “D guard Bowie.” It bore a striking resemblance to the Wing Chun knives. I have a pair of repros that I train singly with bowie technique, and also use them for WCK training as a pair. They are a little bit smaller than the typical Butterfly knive, but still work great. They also have the advantage of the curved back-edge that makes the bowie what it is. If you know how to do the classic “backcut”, it fits perfectly with WCK technique. Here’s a little hint…the forehand backcut is similar to the motion of the bong sau, and the backhand backcut is similar to the motion of the tan sau. I just discovered today that these same knives I have been using are available on eBay. At $25 a piece, you can’t beat the price. That’s $50 for a fairly decent pair of Butterfly knife substitutes. If you are interested, you can check them out here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2188834835&category=36042

Keith

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If what you refer to the “backcuts” are what I think they are, then the “shapes” are similar to bon and tan but the energy is different, i.e. bon and tan push forward whereas the backcuts slice back toward oneself.

In a land (Australia) whose laws make carrying a pair of big knives for defense completely impractical, I train the butterfly sword form a lot with sticks - you have to use a “bashing” rather than “slicing” energy, as they now become impact rather than edged weapons.

I train edged weapons too, but combat folder size - I can say I use it for work if challenged, though that would be a difficult argument to use with an 18 inch bowie.

If WC is meant to practice the pole as a long weapon and swords as short weapons, both being applicable to improvised weapons, you are much more likely to find a blunt instrument lying around than a two foot sword with hook attached in any case, unless you work in a kitchen, slaughterhouse, or operating theatre. IMO it’s also important to work with both types of weapons - on one of my Hock Hochheim tapes he warns against allowing knifework to effect your impact weapon training, so that you tend to “slice” with a stick as if it were a blade instead of using proper impact technique.

If those knives are well constructed though, that’s excellent value.

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If what you refer to the “backcuts” are what I think they are, then the “shapes” are similar to bon and tan but the energy is different, i.e. bon and tan push forward whereas the backcuts slice back toward oneself.

—Yes. That’s right. The backcuts are similar to bong and tan in the same way that the “diagonal” and the “drilling” punches are similar to bong and tan.

In a land (Australia) whose laws make carrying a pair of big knives for defense completely impractical, I train the butterfly sword form a lot with sticks - you have to use a “bashing” rather than “slicing” energy, as they now become impact rather than edged weapons.

—Yep. Good strategy. I cross-train the bowie techniques with a similar size stick as well. Even the backcuts! :slight_smile:

I train edged weapons too, but combat folder size - I can say I use it for work if challenged, though that would be a difficult argument to use with an 18 inch bowie.

—True. I train with the bowie for many reasons, including its historical value and just the “coolness” factor. It has its place alongside most the the martial arts weapons people train with that are actually directly applicable in modern times…like the butterfly knives, long pole, nunchuku, broadswords, three-section staff, sai, etc, etc. I would dare say the bowie at least retains more applicability that just about any other martial arts weapon because most of its technique can be applied to a large kitchen knife and part of its technique can be applied to a tactical folder.

If WC is meant to practice the pole as a long weapon and swords as short weapons, both being applicable to improvised weapons, you are much more likely to find a blunt instrument lying around than a two foot sword with hook attached in any case, unless you work in a kitchen, slaughterhouse, or operating theatre.

—I agree. But then I hope you are doing most of your stick training with a single weapon. Seldom will you find two blunt weapons of matched length and weight to use like the paired butterfly knives are used.

IMO it’s also important to work with both types of weapons - on one of my Hock Hochheim tapes he warns against allowing knifework to effect your impact weapon training, so that you tend to “slice” with a stick as if it were a blade instead of using proper impact technique.

----Good point.

If those knives are well constructed though, that’s excellent value.

—No complaints so far. :slight_smile:

Keith