Goat Restraining or Pigeon Toed Stance

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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[QUOTE=Eric_H;1098603]In HFY we translate Yee Ge Kim Yeung Ma as “character 2 stance” where it is the short line over the longer one. We do not have the pidgeon toes like I did in Moy Yat WC, rather it is a very slight inward turn which allows the hip to connect all the way down the leg.

As for it being a fighting stance, it can be. Stance usages are range and leverage dependent.[/QUOTE]

I take it HFY is Hung Fa Yi?

Awhile back I stumbled upon Hung Fa Yi but know nothing about it really. I got a book with Garett Gee in it. I was doing some things online dealing with William Cheung and how his system is so different from Ip Man’s. It was brought up that some of it resembled Hung Fa Yi and that had been my thoughts. Someone asked if it was possible Cheung had contact with Hung Fa Yi. I have not to my knowledge seen full forms from Hung Fa Yi do you know where any may be posted?

Just found this if it’s Hung Fa Yi but would be interested in seeing more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEfMlbAoghU&playnext=1&list=PL29E5713358314594

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Here is the nature and raw form of goat stance

this is the idea of what SLT/SNT is about in the begining before many people evolve it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxv0qVxqdOE&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP1408CFB0BB5A5F4A

What do you think?

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[QUOTE=wolf3001;1098618]
Just found this if it’s Hung Fa Yi but would be interested in seeing more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEfMlbAoghU&playnext=1&list=PL29E5713358314594[/QUOTE]

That looks like an Ip Man derivative, not HFY.

This is HFY. :smiley:

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[QUOTE=wolf3001;1098618]I take it HFY is Hung Fa Yi?

Awhile back I stumbled upon Hung Fa Yi but know nothing about it really. I got a book with Garett Gee in it. I was doing some things online dealing with William Cheung and how his system is so different from Ip Man’s. It was brought up that some of it resembled Hung Fa Yi and that had been my thoughts. Someone asked if it was possible Cheung had contact with Hung Fa Yi. I have not to my knowledge seen full forms from Hung Fa Yi do you know where any may be posted?

Just found this if it’s Hung Fa Yi but would be interested in seeing more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEfMlbAoghU&playnext=1&list=PL29E5713358314594[/QUOTE]

Hello wolf3001,

Yes HFY is Hung Fa Yi, sorry, acronyms come with being a programmer :wink:

That video is not Hung Fa Yi, we do not have videos available. There was some talk of an online video project to be done in 2011, but I don’t know the status of it at this time.

As for TWC and HFY, Garrett Gee and William Cheung have never met. W. Cheung was a student of Yip Man, and claims to know the Leung Bik version of wing chun that Yip Man learned after Chun Wa Shun’s version. Whether you believe that or not is up to you, but TWC and HFY have some pretty radical differences.

In the end it’s all WC, every lineage I know of descends from Taan Sau Ng anyways.

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One WC guy told me this joke (don’t be too serious about this). The WC Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma () and Tan Sau () was invented by Yip Wing Chun to protect her …

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I am a TWC guy who had the good fortune to meet duende on this forum, an HFY guy, in Sydney a while back.

We compared forms and partner drills … suffice to say there is some commonality, but also a world of difference. I was convinced that if there is a common source it was well before Garrett Gee and William Cheung’s time on the planet.

Lest someone read something into that that isn’t there, from what I’ve seen I think HFY is great.

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[QUOTE=k gledhill;1098595]Shame you waste in on waddling hand chasing…;)[/QUOTE]

Shame you act like a 13 year old

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[QUOTE=anerlich;1098567]No dig at the British, they probably invented the term. (though of course all us Aussies, Irish and Americans hate the Brits)

No idea what the Fox reference refers to.

Does the word “paranoid” mean anything you?[/QUOTE]

Exlplains a lot :smiley:

Fox reference was to posts a while back, but you must’ve missed the whole ‘Animal’ thing. And paranoid? Me?

Hmm… perhaps!

[QUOTE=vajramusti;1098567]pigeon toe- yes- an English term.

Some Indians too. Much of the world is now paying for the hegemony the Brits created in South Asia(divide and conquer, Middle east (they carved much of the boundaries and started the oil theft), the Opium trade(my hometown Calcutta) is where ships were loaded with opium bound for Canton> Nota racist comment but a cultural one.
As a boy and youth I had to sing God Save the King for that stuttering rascal while I was not allowed into the tennis clubs, swimming clubs etc. And Churchill aaargh! Enough.

joy[/QUOTE]

Many here seem to ‘say’ they mean no offence, but in truth?

Nothing like people holding onto the past to feed their ignorance imho. Goes the same for the Wing Chun squabbles. I feel we all need to get past that, we are entering a new era, but it just may be impossible for some…

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[QUOTE=Eric_H;1098646]Hello wolf3001,

Yes HFY is Hung Fa Yi, sorry, acronyms come with being a programmer :wink:

That video is not Hung Fa Yi, we do not have videos available. There was some talk of an online video project to be done in 2011, but I don’t know the status of it at this time.

As for TWC and HFY, Garrett Gee and William Cheung have never met. W. Cheung was a student of Yip Man, and claims to know the Leung Bik version of wing chun that Yip Man learned after Chun Wa Shun’s version. Whether you believe that or not is up to you, but TWC and HFY have some pretty radical differences.

In the end it’s all WC, every lineage I know of descends from Taan Sau Ng anyways.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t think it really was because I have found nothing else im not sure why the video came up when I typed in Hung Fa Yi. What I read almost a year ago was that Garrett Gee has claimed to have never met him or they just said he hadn’t. Because I have had no contact with anyone in the system I have yet to see it’s forms. I have only seen a part of the Siu Lim Tau and Chum Kiu because the photos are incomplete. but it looks somewhat similar from what I can tell I need to see video. I became interested in Hung Fa Yi mainly because it was what I discovered while looking for an older branch that came from beyond Leung Jan and followed a different line. I think thats where I began anyway it’s been awhile. This is why I got the book with him in it.

I have a hard time trusting anyone within the Ip Man line it’s my view that this line is where many of the political issues originated from. Ip Man never openly to my knowledge stated who was to become the head. My view is because he didn’t care or there was nothing to head. I wasn’t there and can’t say but from what I read he wasn’t even considered anything of a head of Wing Chun until he went to Hong Kong. To me it would be like my Sifu going off and teaching here or whatever and then we started calling him a Grandmaster. He is a Master and has taught many to instructor level. Ip Chun had to apologize to the grandson of Yuen Kay San I honestly didn’t know much about Yuen Kay San until very recently because I didn’t realize there was any connection to Ip Man. Im wondering who were the top dogs of Wing Chun during Ip Man’s years before going to Hong Kong I read he was sort of a nobody.

Yuen Kay San from what I read taught Ip Man Chi Sau because he had never learned it but he did so reluctantly and asked Ip Man to not show others. Acording to what im reading Ip Man learned from various people but was under Yuen Kay San in their group. I had heard at one time after he met Leung Bik he went to Foshan and easily defeated other Wing Chun students he had knew and they were upset at what he was using like he had mixed it with something different. I just find it hard to believe that there was some major secret Wing Chun that Ip learned from Leung Bik that Yuen Kay San and others didn’t know. Concidering Yuen Kay San’s came from Wong Wah Bo. Anyway…

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Many here seem to ‘say’ they mean no offence, but in truth?

Nothing like people holding onto the past to feed their ignorance imho. Goes the same for the Wing Chun squabbles. I feel we all need to get past that, we are entering a new era, but it just may be impossible for some…[/QUOTE]

You are kidding arent you??

You latch onto your sigung, the old ways, links with animals etc and then have the hide to say this nonsense!

New era??

Tell us about your New Era??

Your hypocrisy astounds me

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[QUOTE=GlennR;1098668]You are kidding arent you??

You latch onto your sigung, the old ways, links with animals etc and then have the hide to say this nonsense!

New era??

Tell us about your New Era??

Your hypocrisy astounds me[/QUOTE]

Dude, if you find discussing ‘older’ stuffs insulting I can’t do anything about that!

I have rarely made any personal comments about what I think of other countries or cultures and I have always tried my best to not sling sh!t at people here :eek: I have a resounding repsect for anyone that has stayed in WCK for more than 10 years and I especially have a soft spot for people who stayed loyal to their WCK Sifu.

And FWIW I don’t ‘latch on’ to my Sigung. I am free of him. He is dead. If anything I am one of the only westerners with permission to talk about Lee Shing so publically, and that’s because of my own Sifus status in the family. I come here to share ideas, only to be flogged continuously by random posters who know little or nothing about the Lee Shing ‘way’.

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[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1098669]Dude, if you find discussing ‘older’ stuffs insulting I can’t do anything about that!

I have rarely made any personal comments about what I think of other countries or cultures and I have always tried my best to not sling sh!t at people here :eek: I have a resounding repsect for anyone that has stayed in WCK for more than 10 years and I especially have a soft spot for people who stayed loyal to their WCK Sifu.

And FWIW I don’t ‘latch on’ to my Sigung. I am free of him. He is dead. If anything I am one of the only westerners with permission to talk about Lee Shing so publically, and that’s because of my own Sifus status in the family. I come here to share ideas, only to be flogged continuously by random posters who know little or nothing about the Lee Shing ‘way’.[/QUOTE]

Well im glad you only “rarely” make personal comments about other cultures or countries… Thats very reassuring.

And the fact that you adhere to things such as “i am the only westernerer with permission” and “my own sifus status in the family” shows where you are stuck.
And then you finish up with “the lee shing way”

Dude (really), why dont you try the Spencer way and stop being a lee shing record thats stuck

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[QUOTE=GlennR;1098670]Well im glad you only “rarely” make personal comments about other cultures or countries… Thats very reassuring.

And the fact that you adhere to things such as “i am the only westernerer with permission” and “my own sifus status in the family” shows where you are stuck.
And then you finish up with “the lee shing way”

Dude (really), why dont you try the Spencer way and stop being a lee shing record thats stuck[/QUOTE]

Sorry but I see that as no different than anyone here saying they train the Ip Man/WSL/CST/HKM/whatever way. It’s just an expression to highlight my origin. That’s all.

And to correct you, I said I am one of the only…

And I am far from ‘stuck’. I’m just loyal to my Sifu, but I do iunderstand that these things may seem a bit old fashioned to many but it’s the way I am dude. I aint apologizing for that.

And let’s be real honest here, what have you contributed to this thread exactly?
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1098655&postcount=46

1 post insulting Kevin and the rest are aimed at me… :confused: I’m sorry that you feel the way you do about my background and the way I’m trying to express myself here, but maybe you want to take some of your own advice and criticisms too sometimes?

FWIW Flystudio IS me and only me. But if you think I can take credit for the literature and curriculums I have learnt, think again…

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[QUOTE=GlennR;1098655]Shame you act like a 13 year old[/QUOTE]

Its a joke dude, a forum…

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1098628]Here is the nature and raw form of goat stance

this is the idea of what SLT/SNT is about in the begining before many people evolve it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxv0qVxqdOE&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP1408CFB0BB5A5F4A

What do you think?[/QUOTE]

may be some of you dont understand what I am bringing up.

What I am bringing up is

the question of if that YJKYM according to us support the upper body such as in this break dancing clip.

the break dancing clip show a nature way of the lower body supporting the upper body and hand’s movement.

Now, if we lock the stance or take a fix posture like putting a concrete instead of a spring stance, it is not going to support the upper body well and the upper and lower body will break under pressure.

Those triangle concept are great, however, those are just an instantaneous state of transformation from a neutral positoin instead of a rigid fix position from begining to end.

So, if a stance is so fixed and clumpsy ;and not echoing the upper body/ arm/hands..because it has all kind of fix rules needs to follow;
the stance cannot even support dancing with ease, with that it is not likely to support a fight. that just shows the evolution of the stance has gone off marks.

Take the above clip seriously and compare with the SLT/SNT practice clip and see.

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1098717]may be some of you dont understand what I am bringing up.

What I am bringing up is

the question of if that YJKYM according to us support the upper body such as in this break dancing clip.

------------------------IMO-
You are going off a bit on a tangent Hendrik. The break dancing clip shows a good degree of looseness…but the YGKYM that I do teaches good structure with right joint linkage and flexibility not rigidity.

joy

57

in my understanding,

YJKYM for SLT/SNT training is

a nature parallel feet ,
equal shoulder wide stance,
and the body weight rest on the external side of the legs,
with all legs joints loose up, sligly bend for aliveness;

So

Yee, or two, means parallel feet and egual shoulder wide,
the external side of legs is called Yang (male, positive) side.

it is shoulder wide because that is the optimal for human body in standing and moving the upper body.

it is parallel feet because that is optimal to loose up every joints of legs up to the hip-thight joints. which then influence the spine aliveness.

clamping Yang means rest the body weight in both of the Yang side of the both feets; that way the legs naturally “clamp” , and the out come is a body structure effortless and balancely “root/lavitate” on ground with ease.

all joints of the legs up to the hip-thight joints is loose and effortless. every part of the body is as light weight as feather.

That is the biomechanics.

For those who knows TCMA and Qi and medirians.

Clamping Yang comes naturally with loose and relax leg/lower body instead of using effort to clamping anything. that is because any tensing will disturb the qi flow.

just rest the body weight naturally to the external side, that way the ying side or the inner thigh side will be relax and allow 3 legs’ yin medirians’ qi flow up to the body and smooth lower abs breathing.

It has to be parallel feet because that is the only way to be able to get all legs to hip joints to loose up and open up the Hui Yin Ren and Du medirians for the small cosmic cycle and also other special medirians.

That is the Qi flow mechanics.

Thus, the YJKYM is doing something similar to the break dance above; it is
loose, with ease, nature, and fully support the upper body’s motion and power generation to flow with ease.

You dont have to believe me, try it and see for yourself.

It is my view, this stance has become a blind religion and dead.

it is like the evolution of spiritual to religion. first it is spiritual because that serve a needs then it becomes a religion and lost the spiritual part where every one has to obey it but it is not serving much spiritual at all.

When a stance is no longer nature but man made, you will never see it in the mmA match. if it can support dancing, forget about it to support fighting. so that training is actually useless and even damaging because it get one into bad habit which is un nature.

Just my 5 cents.

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[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1098724][QUOTE=Hendrik;1098717]may be some of you dont understand what I am bringing up.

What I am bringing up is

the question of if that YJKYM according to us support the upper body such as in this break dancing clip.

------------------------IMO-
You are going off a bit on a tangent Hendrik. The break dancing clip shows a good degree of looseness…but the YGKYM that I do teaches good structure with right joint linkage and flexibility not rigidity.

joy[/QUOTE]

Joy,

1, let’s first appreciate all the evolution of YJKYM because everyone is doing their best to satisfy their needs.

2,

For a religion point of view, yes I could be off tangent totally even.

As you know, I am pushing the boundary of “religion” to go back to “spiritual”.

I think , for WCKner,

We need to know why we are doing it, how we are doing it, and the result we are expecting. instead of a “religion” because God says so or the Pope says so.

YJKYM is just as its name said, the chinese is very precise in naming.

Letter two means parallel feet and equal shoulder
Clamping Yang means rest the body weight in the yang side of the both legs.

That’s all, nothing mysterious or specific application. But supporting all application because it is a neutral nature effortless human stance one uses it daily. Like in the break dance.

Just my 5 cents

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If ygkym was not meant as a fighting stance, there would be some other stance trained. Why train in that stance when it is not to be used for fighting? Naturally, when we fight we will not hold the basic stance as it would require us to stand in one place. We move about, that is what footwork is practiced for. We can break the stance up when we move, but still maintain the stance as a basic. In training WC as a young man, I spent many hours just doing the shifting footwork. I moved about quickly too, and could cut you off, move clear of you, angle to your side, and even get in behind you at times. You never see anyone training simple footwork, rapid shifting, things like that. I can run, move in any direction quickly, and all the while maintaining the ygkym stance. I consider it to be a real fighting stance, and I also consider it to be the best fighting stance. I think most people just think it is the sunken, pigeon toed, fists at the arm pit stance. That is just the basic square stance. Or triangle stance as some call it, then there are the side front stances, and even a side horse, or goat. Any stance, jujitsu, karate, boxing, all require that you be able to alter it to meet the need, but everything has to have a basic starting point.

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[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1098758]everything has to have a basic starting point.[/QUOTE]

It’s not tha hard to figure out the best fighting stance for the human body. If you

  • face your opponent, you will expose too much area (CON), but both of your hands can reach your opponent (PRO).
  • use your side to face your opponent, you will expose less area (PRO), but you have one long arm and one short arm (CON).

Something in between should be better.

If you have

  • 50%-50% weight on both legs, before you move, you have to shift more weight to one leg first (CON), but you can shift any leg you want to (PRO).
  • 0%-100% weight distribution, you can move your front leg anytime you want to (PRO), but you can only move your front leg (CON).

Something in between should be better.

So a 30%-70% or 40%-60% and 45 degree body turn stance should be the best comprimise fighting stance.