Getting your students to relax !!

Hi all,

As some of you may know i opened my first club about 4 months ago and have many differing experiences since that time. As all of you who teach know, some students progress faster than others, and others are naturally more relaxed - and this is my question. What have you found are the best ways to try and get students to relax. I was teaching the dummy to a student last night who used to box, and he was intent on batteriing the mook!! I explained to him that the mook is to train structure, smooth execution of techique and energy rather than power, but 20 mins later he still slamming it. Maybe i am just being impatient and that relaxation will come with time.

I was considering introducing some chi kung exercise i used to do to try and promote correct breathing etc, but i dont want to dilute the art in any way.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance, Stuart

Relaxing

Hi Stu.

Try getting them to Chain punch 3 x 10 sets of 10 punches before moving on to siu lim tao for 3 to 5 SLOW run throughs.

Tiring the muscles to exhaustion MAKES the soften up, cos the muscles are so sore they can’t use them !

Regards

Dave F

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the advice. I think one of the problems is that students who are naturally agressive often tend to be tense too. One of the benefits of chi sao is that it doesnttake you long to realise that if you dont relax you not only get hit, but will find it difficult to hit back. Darn Chi sau helps relaxation but not to the extent that chi sau does. So for those who havent reached the Lok sau stage, getting them to relax is tricky - i know time is of the essence.

I do try and break the lesson up betwenn soft / hard / fast / soft/. Drilling Lin Wan Kuen very slowly with great fluidity helps and also helps to relax the shoulders as this seems to be where most students hold their tension. SLT of course helps too.

‘lut sau, jik chung’ drills are also useful.

Suppose im just being impatient - the joys of learning your trade as an instructor !!

Cheers, Stu

Re: Getting your students to relax !!

Hi Stuart.

I’ll offer a few thoughts, in case any of it may be helpful.

It is an understatement to say that we [me and mine] work very diligently on this aspect. An inability to properly relax (not inferring piles of putty) is one element of training that will, in our way of working, seriously impede one’s progress.

Through methods taught in our tradition, we have a high rate of success in getting people to understand what we mean by relaxation, and continuously improve it in their practice. These include:

  • Use of the term "settle" more often than "relax" which seems to capture the essence a little better.
  • [I]Slow[/I] and [I]relaxed[/I] SNT. 15 - 20 minutes minimum. Perfect positioning only, [B]no power![/B]
  • Use of mirrors. The learner must learn to recognize their errors, in this case and initially [I]visible[/I] tension, and ultimately to self-correct.
  • [I]Constant nagging![/I] In a nurturing way of course. :) This includes verbal reminders as well as [B]tactile[/B] assistance (e.g., patting or pressing the shoulders down, down, I mean DOWN, LOL).

Some of the most immediate signs that a person is not “settled” include shoulders up, any obvious tension anywhere, and a body that is “disturbed” or following the hands or feet, rather than the other way around.

In my experience and observation, it is far easier to get an over-relaxed person to put some substance back in, than it is for someone who is tense to develop correct positioning, sensitivity, timing, or develop our preferred method of power. A person who remains tense has the most and ongoing frustration.

Once a sign of tension or “trying too hard” is recognized (and we are always on the lookout!), a reminder goes out immediately. This is done constantly enough that the learners soon tire of hearing it, and learn to do it for themselves, LOL. In our sessions, partners are expected to help each other with such reminders.

Here are some other, albeit less traditional methods we have found helpful for triggering a relaxation response, especially for some unintentionally stubborn types:

  • Have them give one or more heavy "sighs."
  • Have them tense up tightly all over, then release.
  • Play relaxing music and incense.

Regarding the last: we do not do this all the time. A pleasant atmosphere suits the purpose well enough for encouraging a relaxed mind and body after a long day’s work, and is, simply put, quite enjoyable. However, ever mindful that this is a “fighting art” I personally feel it is important for practitioners to learn to perform equally well under all circumstances and in all environments. This includes increasing degrees of pressure and unpleasant circumstances. Even in the absence of lilting music or pleasant fragrance. :wink:

Balance in all things, and all things in balance, IMHO.

A person who cannot learn to relax, simply put, would not progress sufficiently in capability to properly learn the dummy set, in our way of practice.

It is not our wont to waste our or anyone’s time teaching people things they aren’t sufficiently capable to yet. The dummy cannot help but encourage someone with the “wrong idea” to the wrong practice, and I would strongly discourage or prohibit the person from using it till ready. For most of us, it takes quite a lot of time and diligence in practice before the “right idea” really begins to settle in.

It is almost universal that beginners are hungry to progress quickly, and concerned with things like speed and power. Some of my most cherished moments as a mentor and coach have been when our juniors came to the point of requesting no further new information as they felt they already had enough they needed to work on. This is when I know we are on the same path. :slight_smile:

This reminds me of a thread elsewhere on this forum, where folks were of the opinion that the system can be learned in something like 3 years. I’ve no doubt someone can learn the superficial aspects and choreography of the system in 3 years, but to develop real excellence demands a lifetime of patient and persistent practice, IMHO.

In a training session with my teacher a few months back, he was discussing the importance of a strong stance, and proper, patient practice of the first set. He said that in an ideal situation, the student would practice the SNT only for 3 years, before progressing to Chum Kiu and new material.

He also said this virtually never happens, because there wouldn’t be any students! We are all too impatient, and concerned with immediate gratification more than appreciation for long term excellence and the patience to achieve it. This perspective is in direct opposition to assertions that the system should be covered in 3 years or less. Kung fu is not my teacher’s “rice bowl,” and assumptions of money motive do not apply. The idea is to learn and develop our own superior and superb kung fu. It is no surprise to me that those impatient to learn, don’t usually stick around long with us.

He did say that he finally has one student, who by his own volition, has almost put in an ideally sufficient time to the first set before moving on. He is one of my sihings. While I won’t name names, he is indeed developing highly estimable skill. I admire him greatly, and have great anticipation to see his kung fu skill continue to unfold and become realized as he further learns to apply his hard earned skills.

My last rambling thought for getting others to relax, is that in this, and all things, we as leaders need to set the example ourselves. In my necessarily humble perspective, it is more important to set a proper example of how to train than try to impress with level of skill. Skill cannot be forced, but necessarily follows from proper practice. To be living examples of proper and diligent practice is perhaps the most important thing we can give.

Just a few thoughts from my experience and perspective.

Regards and best wishes,

  • Kathy Jo

KJ

So I guess screaming “DROP DOWN AND GIVE ME TWENTY!!” at them is not the way to go?

Thanks for the thoughts KJ - i think i am just being patient, and believe me, i do nag. Time will fix !

Stu

Re: KJ

Originally posted by Alpha Dog
So I guess screaming “DROP DOWN AND GIVE ME TWENTY!!” at them is not the way to go?

I’ve not had to resort to it yet, but for the totally incorrigible, it might be just the thing, LOL.

  • kj

actually it might, except youd have to have em keep doing pushups til they can barely hold up their arms :slight_smile:

then mebe theyll relax a little

but in my experience, even then they probably wont:)

Stuart,

Can I suggest you look at the article Sink the Shoulders at www.webwingchun.com?

Secondly, I am always told to relax! But I think the problem is that I am not aware that I am tense - it has to be pointed out to me. Perhaps you can point out to your students when they are tense and point to some physical cues that make you say that.

Thirdly,
It’s natural to tense up particularly when you (as an instructor)are casting your ever watchful eye on students. As a student I tend to tense up when my instructor is watching me - the bugger never catches me when I am relaxed :slight_smile: - what I am suggesting is that it’s always right for the instructor to pick up on points at any time and in any place - it’s down to the student to listen and act on what the instructor says.

What I would say (being a student!) is that half the battle is making the student aware and the second half is down to the student.

IMHO Proper relaxation should be addressed WAY before students are allowed to touch the dummy.

Foundation in SLT before they move. And relaxation needs to be WELL established in CK..or else they wont have the cohesive mass to use in the Wc formula for power.
Due the to fact that this student is ‘bashing’ the dummy, it’s obvious he does not have knowledge or skill to exert power in any other way…other than using muscular power.

Relaxation can be achived to a greater extent when the proper structure is present, and use of COG to control/react.

Cheers again for the comments - whenever i see the students tense i do physically press their shoulders down usually when they are doing SLT. I also make sure they 'shake -down ’ regularly and loosen up before strenuous drills etc.

S.Teebas- i would agree with some of your comments, but not all. Yes, they are many subtleties and benefits to be gained from the dummy that you can only acheive at higher levels. However, at lower levels the dummy can improv your foot work significantly. Also, as you progress through the system and your skill levels improve, the response you get from the dummy will be different and you will begin to sense the type of energy that needs to be developed. I would ask the question - should the different footwork only be practised when you reach chum kiu?? Surely not. You would be drilling in a static stance for about 2 years !! Before i teach the mook form, i always teach basics on the dummy first - e.g park sau / bong / jum using the yiu ma etc.

All comments - positive/negative are welcome !!

Yours, on a learning curve ! Stuart

Hey Stuart!

Clearing the mind with a few deep breaths is very good. A calm body will always follow a calm mind!

A few good jokes have te same effects!:wink:

Hi Old Jong !

I very much agree. My background for many years was Tai Chi, and i am very much considering putting some tai chi / chi kung exercies into my curriculum as they are very good for abdominal breathing and deep relaxation.

Just dont want my students to bugger off and do tai chi because they prefer those elements to the Wing Chun !!! LOL !

Best Wishes, Stu

Practice mode!

This is like getting into some kind of state or mode before practicing something. A few deep breaths down to the tantien and you are ready for anything but relaxed at the same time!..I do this and it works for me and my students as well.
I do the same when I sit on my motorcycle!..I would not press the first gear without doing it! :wink:
Teaching is a wonderful experience.I learn something new or in a new perspective at every class.I bet it is the same for you. :slight_smile:

kj wrote: I personally feel it is important for practitioners to learn to perform equally well under all circumstances and in all environments. This includes increasing degrees of pressure and unpleasant circumstances. Even in the absence of lilting music or pleasant fragrance.

How will all the foppish dandies get to duel then?!

Hi Stewart,

hehe, we’re a little off topic, but anyway.. :slight_smile:

However, at lower levels the dummy can improv your foot work significantly. Also, as you progress through the system and your skill levels improve, the response you get from the dummy will be different and you will begin to sense the type of energy that needs to be developed.

I can see 2 points of view on this. The first is from teaching a person who has no idea how to fight or defend him/herself. If this were the case then i can see this method above being good. It can increase the chances of a person to survive a real encounter.

On the other hand, do you think that students may develop bad habbits?..or can these be easily filtered out? (eg how the student issues power)

I would ask the question - should the different footwork only be practised when you reach chum kiu?? Surely not.

I was under the impressiont that the footwork isnt exactly a literal translation that ‘what you see is what you get’. More so the WAY of moving.. ie the freedom in the joints, connection in structure, responce from centre…etc etc…(feeling). Im not sure what your asking; how can one practice footwork before it is taught?

sooner or later it was gonna be said!!!

All they really need is a few stiff drinks and a big fat “J” and…“Wallah” relaxation!!!:slight_smile:

Sunkuen!

You forgot S.X!..:wink: :smiley: Maybe a little too much relaxing? :rolleyes:

o.j.

I didn’t wan’t to upset the “ladies” on the forum!!! s.x it seems actually makes some peeps uptight!!!:rolleyes:

But, I’m sure you are aware that…

Ladies hate vulgarity not s.x!!! :wink: