Getting burned by having a knife

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Street/Reality Fighting
1

I know there have been variations of this
question before, but since the topic is fresh
in my mind I wanted to bring it up again. What
do you see as the problems with carrying a knife?

Do you think it creates a false sense of sec-
urity? Is a person more likely to hurt them-
selves than their attacker if they aren’t highly
trained to use a blade? Since I started training
to use a knife a few weeks ago I’ve wondered if
I might want to carry one but my Shifu warns me
that although ethicly it may be okay, I will al-
most always seem like a bad guy in the eyes of
the law. I don’t really want to go out and cut
anybody up, but if a big guy comes at me, having
a knife might defuse the situation and give me
a chance to get out before blows are thrown. Am
I just kidding myself with this one?

I know that it’s better to be tried by 12 than
carried by 6, but is carrying a knife more
trouble than it’s worth? And if not, what do you
need to do to make having a knife an asset?

Thanks

If you want to be great, you have to stop wanting and simply be.

2

I’ve got a news flash for you. Having a knife or any other weapon isn’t necessarily going to “defuse” a situation where a big guy is coming at you. Martial arts is all about avoidance. That’s a basic philosophical rule everyone knows but few practice with diligence.

Having said that, I don’t see anyting inherently wrong by carrying a knife, (as long as it’s legal)m but it’s your sifu’s call and your ultimate decision whether or not you want to heed his advice. Just remember: a knife is as much trouble or as much help as the person carrying it.

K. Mark Hoover

3

banging head against wall

A martial art is about cultivating skills suitable for war or a warrior (by definition). More specifically, it’s about personal combat skills.

Martial awareness and strategy often involve identifying and avoiding threats and siituations (remember, the goal is usually centered around your safety) but that is hardly what martial arts are “about”. Ask a police officer if his suspect apprehension training was about avoiding contact with the suspect.

That said. A knife is a weapon. It is an escilation of conflict. Sometimes a fight goes until someone is unnerved and flees, other times it goes until one participant can no longer fight.

A knife in someone’s hands makes them a more dangerous opponent. Even untrained, it is quite deadly. In fact, I’ve seen many “knife training” methods that were downright counterproductive, the person would have been better off with no training.

Now, as to your “do I want to carry a knife” question. Ask yourself if you will need it. If you carry your knife, and you get into fights, there is a good chance you will pull it. If you pull it, there is a good chance someone dies.

I agree, I would rather kill than die. The question is “Is that the other alternative?”. If you don’t carry a knife and you don’t win the next fight what will happen? Is that worse than carrying the knife and winning the fight? Only you can answer that. But if you find that you should indeed be carrying that knife, shouldn’t you also be carrying a firearm?

To the other person’s comment on becoming over-confident. That is always a danger. It is “not the knife’s fault”. The knife improves you chances of killing your opponent. The trick is learning not to make your fighting decisions based on that belief.

I’ll share a bit of my own philosophy. I only fight someone that I would fight even if I knew I was going to loose. In other words, my confidence in winning plays no part in my decision to fight. I fight when the cause is just (or forced) enough that I am willing to fight and loose. Besides, that way, when his friend shoots me in the back, at least I won’t go “damn, I made the wrong decision”.

Jerry - www.clearsilat.com

[This message was edited by Jerry Love on 04-23-01 at 03:07 PM.]

4

In my mind, introducing a weapon into a situation escalates it into the deadly area, particularly knives. If you pull a knife, you’d better be dammed sure that you are willing to use it - and I mean really use it. Otherwise you’re better off leaving it at home.

I always consider the fact that if I introduce a weapon, then it is quite possible that the weapon may be used against me.

You have no chance to survive - make your time.

5

AAARRRGGGGGGHHHH!!! bangs head again

Groaner response #2 rears it’s ugly head “the weapon will be taken and used against you”.

Statistically, a weapon in you hand is far more likely to be used by you than against you. Don’t believe me? Why do you think security forces arm themselves?

If you’ve god 10 minutes of decent training and someone takes you knife, I will be impressed. Further, he could have easily killed you anyway, so the fact that he has a knife makes little difference.

6

I’m not saying that it WILL happen, I am saying that it CAN happen. In any fight, unexpected things happen. You can be the best trained fighter in the world but you can be unlucky too.

Yes security forces carry weapons. Having a weapon does not ensure victory in a fight, and it does not ensure that you will be the one wielding the weapon at the end.

You have no chance to survive - make your time.

7

Keep in mind that if you pull a knife with the intention of just scaring the other (unarmed) guy off, you are now considered the attacker by law regardless if the guy is much bigger than you. If the police should arrive at the scene, who do you think would get shot first - you or your unarmed attacker? A little food for thought.

8

it is best not to carry knife at all if you cannot use it (and is prepared to use it)

i asked this friend of my if i should wear a knife and if it was going to be smart

he said know this if you clench youre fist they grab after there knife if you grab youre knife they whip out there gun and shoot at you the best thing you do is run no matter or just give the money how good you are in Ma if you are like the majority of people you dont really want to stab people you are not “emotinel Destroyed” like those people like attack other people and use knife on people you have an emotinel barrigae against it those seconds is all they need to stab you ten times

and aslo this was said by my father about guns and stuff if someone points a gun in youre face no matter how little the hole in the gun is it seem like a tunnel you are not so tough when
that happens to you

Evil grows deep in shallow Minds

9

Retort with generic situational response #1 and #2 “Shoot them” and “run”.

Here is a hint, in any violent confrontation where you hvae the ability to run, run.

In any confrontation where violence has been forced and running is not a viable option, and you can shoot, shoot.

You can apply this to any argument here. It is irrellevent, I hope we can move on the the issue of weather or not to carry a knife now.

Yes, a weapon does not ensure victory. It does increase greatly the chances of inflicting damage. Security forces do no always win a confrontation, and when they do, it is not always because they are armed. They would be less able to win confrontations without armaments. Ditto millitary forces.

Yes, you may loose the weapon. You may also get run over by a car in the middle of the fight. This is a non-issue. You are not in more danger against a person who wishes to kill you because you are armed.

Someone is unlikely to attempt to draw from a clinch after your knife is in play.

If you pull a knife with the intention of scaring someone, than you are stupid and your soon-to-happen death is natural selection removing such ideas from the gene pool.

To give you a hint on my perspective, my art has slaps to the opponent at the same time you cut. With a sharp knife the nerve endings firing from the slap outweigh the nerve endings fired from the knife cut. The idea is to get as many important arteties (wrist, neck, underarm, clavical, groin, inner leg, etc) as possible without the opponent realizing that the cutting is occuring.

I am unlikely to pull a knife, but if I do, I am not waving it, I am not “scaring you”, I am not trying to get you to back down. I am trying to slaughter you like a sacrifical lamb. It’s that simple. The puropse of a blade is to kill. In personal combat, a knife is a very effective means of doing so that adds greatly to the combat potiency of the wielder.

10

Guns, knives, bombs, tanks, planes, etc.

I was thinking about this when someone on this forum (unfortunately I can’t remember his name) said that he’d been mugged by a group of people who basically just walked up to him and began attacking him before he knew what was going on. If he’d been carrying a weapon in that situation, they certainly would have found it and, if not used it against him, at least stolen it and possibly used it against someone else.

I guess that’s something to consider when thinking about carrying a weapon. Often it’s the one you don’t see coming that gets you…

I’m also not sure if I’d ever find myself in a situation in which I’d actually use a weapon. If someone wants my money, I’d honestly much rather give it to them than stab or shoot them, even if I was sure I could do it effectively. I would imagine that it’s very rare for someone to use a weapon on you after you’ve given them what they want - it seems that they’d want to get out of there as soon as possible.

I realise that not everyone feels this way, and a lot of people argue that as soon as someone pulls a weapon on you they have effectively forfeited their right to life. You can make a strong argument for that position, too…I guess it’s just a matter of how you prefer to deal with that kind of confrontation.

11

Anarcho,
Please allow me to say that I for one find your point of view quite valid and supportable (regarding not wanting to carry)

12

Unless you are very comfortable in the use of a weapon, any weapon, than I do not believe you should be carrying that weapon as a second tier defense.

I carry a folder most of the time and I am comfortable with that choice, I see the large practical advantages in having a knife with me incase of a violent attack or a emergency situation.

A blade is a tool, nothing more and nothing less, you have to understand the purpose of the tool to understand what you can do with it and come to understand and agree with those purposes.

In my mind their is “almost” no such animal as a squared off knifefight, most knifefights are failed murder attempts, a blade works better when used in conjuction with the element of surprise.

You need to be alert and on your toes to draw your blade at the right time, you have to understand mobility, vital zones and angles of attack.

In essence you need to be trained to use a knife in the content that it is its own skill and needs separte training from standard hand to hand methods,the McDojo TKD instructor stating that all you have to do is practice your hand to hand tech’s and you can put a weapon in your hand and your ready to go is very far from the truth.

I have never run across a spear hand yet that could pierce like a knife or a hammerblow that could sever your spine.

Regards

13

I agree with pretty much all of that. If you draw your knife, you’d better be ready to use it otherwise you are dead.

My personal choice (apart from the fact that carrying a knife in public is illegal in Sydney) is to not carry a knife.

You have no chance to survive - make your time.

14

if you have a knife people kick youre ass
ten times harder so if u carry then be prepared to use it

Evil grows deep in shallow Minds

15

I would like yo know where you guys carry your knife. Where do you put it.

It sometimes helps to think like a bad guy. If I was going to attack you I would not let you pull the knife. :confused:

16

Since I carry a folder most of the time I have a good deal of space to clip-it to that would be in the concealed range.

A person could not take my knife as they can not seen it out in the open, you would need to have some time to examine me or pat me down to come across its small frame.

Again IMO the knife is better when used with the element of surprise, so in that context you would already have it out and out of his view when the fight started or be able to draw it from a concealed angle as if you were in a grappling situation and had a free hand.

A blade is a great advantage in a violent situation but you must be prepared to use it and have some skill at what you want to do with it.

My girlfriend carries a small Delica Clip-It folder on her person and I have taken her through some training in basic grappling situation’s in her car and on the ground and even standing as well as the fact that she has had some outside martial arts training.

Her intention is not to knifefight and do a funky commando silent kill tech but to simply provide herself a escape from the situation by using pain tactics and surprise.

A folder is a good choice for her because folders can be fliped open one handed within the blink of a eye.

If someone is going to hurt you they are going to hurt you the same if you carried a knife or not.

Regards

17

Clipped in pocket or waistband.

18

places a knife can be concealed
this is best if you have some colthes on more than t-shirt and shorts just waist level (just above the butt) on youre back then when youre attacked u can easely grab it and make a large nice circle just cutting deep into the face or whatever

or u could hide it near ure neck so when you are confronted (not Attacked but hostile situation) u scratch ure neck and take youre knife out and Action

i dont kidding about the not carriying knife stuff
i have spoken to criminals saying that if you carry a knife and pull that on someone (who is a Criminal)they and their friends will go alot harder on you then if you would just give ure money and about blind violence or Random violence not sure what it is called in english u dont have time to do **** u dont know that it is happening
before u wake up in the hospital that is my experinece of course there is times that a knife
could come in handy

how many of you really know criminals i dont know any that i view as CRiminals but i know that they know people and i have spoken to a few and they all say the same u will be litterly beaten beyond
recognision if u begin to wave around with a

little knife in there faces of course you may say that this is just bragging BUT just think about it ,it is kind of logical that they would go harder on you if you attack with a knife

but if you think carriyng a knife will make u safer be my guest maybe it does i dont know
but if i where to carry a knife i would when attacked Thrust the knife into the gut of the attacker until it stoped turn the blade and then pull it out and run like **** and call an anonymous call to the ambulance

this got alittle long i will try to shorten my posts but when i feel i have to contribute to a discussion it usually gets alittle longer than nessvery

Evil grows deep in shallow Minds

19

Red…

Interesting assumption made about the criminal. “worse than if you just hand over the money”. What if this criminal is not a robber but a rapist, or a murder?

And I am sure they will be pretty brutal. If they stay and if they win. I don’t know about the former, but I really doubt the latter.

There is an old joke that is very true.
Q: “What do you call the guy that dies in the hospital the day after a knife fight?”
A: “The winner”

20

it is not a assumption

of course it would be good to have a knife
if you where confronted by a rapistrobberwhatever BUT a criminal will take alot harder on you if you have a knife

So…if you have a knife you better be prepared
to use and i mean STAB STAB STAB STAB beacuse if you are not 100% on this one…

there is only one problem most people dont have it in them to to stab someone deep in the gut
i am not really against carriyng a knife but people should really know what you getting into

you have to explain that joke to me :confused:

Evil grows deep in shallow Minds