I think that there are many ties between India and China, especially regarding how martial arts methods are transmitted through time.
Having said that, I do believe each nations/peoples martial arts have long been separate and unique, but, it is not difficult to see many similarities that may indeed have the same origin.
Have a look at Gatka weapons and weapons sparring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C54ie5mCLU
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1089324]I think that there are many ties between India and China, especially regarding how martial arts methods are transmitted through time.
Having said that, I do believe each nations/peoples martial arts have long been separate and unique, but, it is not difficult to see many similarities that may indeed have the same origin.
Have a look at Gatka weapons and weapons sparring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C54ie5mCLU
:)[/QUOTE]
Funny you should bring this up, me living in Brampton and all, LOL !
A friend invited me to one of their “training sessions” and it was quite interesting, very formalized and ceremonial, very religious and no actual sparring outside of pre-arranged choregraphed routines.
After wards they asked my opinion and I, of course, gave it, LOL !
A few agreed but a couple thought that I was too harsh so I quickly volunteered to test their views.
I was told that was forbidden.
About a week after that I met up with my friend again and he and a few others wanted to try ther hand at “full contact” sparring with the wooden replicas and I said, great, let’s play.
Of course there was a rude awkening in realizing that what they THOUGHT happens, doesn’t , there was the rude awkening that their “twirling attack” is useless against someone that moves in ( LOL) and there was the very rude awkening of fighting someone that doesn’t follow the set pattern of their “dance”.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1089339]Funny you should bring this up, me living in Brampton and all, LOL !
A friend invited me to one of their “training sessions” and it was quite interesting, very formalized and ceremonial, very religious and no actual sparring outside of pre-arranged choregraphed routines.
After wards they asked my opinion and I, of course, gave it, LOL !
A few agreed but a couple thought that I was too harsh so I quickly volunteered to test their views.
I was told that was forbidden.
About a week after that I met up with my friend again and he and a few others wanted to try ther hand at “full contact” sparring with the wooden replicas and I said, great, let’s play.
Of course there was a rude awkening in realizing that what they THOUGHT happens, doesn’t , there was the rude awkening that their “twirling attack” is useless against someone that moves in ( LOL) and there was the very rude awkening of fighting someone that doesn’t follow the set pattern of their “dance”.[/QUOTE]
Rude awakening s in martial arts are simply learning moments.
If it cannot be recognized by the person, then there is a failure to perceive reality at play.
Any art that uses shape as the only vehicle of transmission and doesn’t test the mettle so to speak is fraudulent in it’s offerings as a martial art.
But, in the context of cultural art form, then it makes sense to promote it as such and give it value and meaning in that respect and to not try and convince people that it is something that it is clearly not.
Nothing wrong with ritual combat as long as it is recognized as such, approached as such and dealt with as such.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1089339]Funny you should bring this up, me living in Brampton and all, LOL !
A friend invited me to one of their “training sessions” and it was quite interesting, very formalized and ceremonial, very religious and no actual sparring outside of pre-arranged choregraphed routines.
After wards they asked my opinion and I, of course, gave it, LOL !
A few agreed but a couple thought that I was too harsh so I quickly volunteered to test their views.
I was told that was forbidden.
About a week after that I met up with my friend again and he and a few others wanted to try ther hand at “full contact” sparring with the wooden replicas and I said, great, let’s play.
Of course there was a rude awkening in realizing that what they THOUGHT happens, doesn’t , there was the rude awkening that their “twirling attack” is useless against someone that moves in ( LOL) and there was the very rude awkening of fighting someone that doesn’t follow the set pattern of their “dance”.[/QUOTE]
They have my respect for actually seeking to test their stuff out, even if it didn’t work.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1089345]Rude awakening s in martial arts are simply learning moments.
If it cannot be recognized by the person, then there is a failure to perceive reality at play.
Any art that uses shape as the only vehicle of transmission and doesn’t test the mettle so to speak is fraudulent in it’s offerings as a martial art.
But, in the context of cultural art form, then it makes sense to promote it as such and give it value and meaning in that respect and to not try and convince people that it is something that it is clearly not.
Nothing wrong with ritual combat as long as it is recognized as such, approached as such and dealt with as such. :)[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
Sikh’s are a very militant bunch, that’s for sure.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1089347]Agreed.
Sikh’s are a very militant bunch, that’s for sure.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, well, when we look at how they are treated in India and the history of how they have been under constant attack since their religions inception, then it is easy to see what’s up with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Not too mention the bloody stupid things said in the punjabi newspapers about martyrs, guru’s favourites, etc etc. Big stink about one of the writers that was or is employed by one of the big 2 punjabi papers in your town.
The more integration we get in this country, the more we get to see how each cultures thought processes carry burdens of error that are magnificent in some cases! Even our own culture does this, but, you can’t touch your nose to your elbow is how it goes.
Anyway, here nor there. I thought this was all too similar a method of practice as what one would find in tma of all sorts but in particular of the chinese varieties which is indicative of the cross cultural back and forth over centuries and millenia.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1089350]
Anyway, here nor there. I thought this was all too similar a method of practice as what one would find in tma of all sorts but in particular of the chinese varieties which is indicative of the cross cultural back and forth over centuries and millenia.[/QUOTE]
I think that every MA has far more in common than dissimilar.
People just tend to point out the differences, typically because they want to believe they are doing something/are part of something unique.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1089351]I think that every MA has far more in common than dissimilar.
People just tend to point out the differences, typically because they want to believe they are doing something/are part of something unique.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
Martial Arts is presented in ludicrous degrees of complexity.
And then when you ask anyone who actually has put their time in and given/taken with them…they will invariably state it’s the basics that work and that will be the bread and butter of your efforts when your martial art has to be used for realz.
edumication is where it at.
Sikhs to hold international martial arts competition in San Jose
Anyone see gatka in person?
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19199018
By Lisa Fernandez lfernandez@mercurynews.com
Posted: 10/26/2011 01:55:46 PM PDT
Updated: 10/26/2011 09:43:18 PM PDT
Sikhs are not unfamiliar with battle, neither physical nor political, here in Silicon Valley.
And on Saturday, the community is holding its first international Sikh martial arts competition at the San Jose Gurdwara Sahib, or Sikh temple, in the Evergreen hills.
The battle is over who will be the best “gatka” expert, the one who best masters a sword, a stick and a shield in an ancient rite of Sikh combat.
“This is the first international gatka contest held in California,” said Sukhdev Bainiwal, a member of the San Jose Sikh temple who is in charge of the battle. The first such contest was held nine years ago in Toronto.
He said about 200 competitors from California, New York, Houston, Maryland, New Jersey, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver and India will participate. There are four age categories, from the under-7 group to those who are in their 60s.
The winners share a total of $9,000 in cash prizes.
Gatka may be best compared to the eskrima, the martial arts of the Philippines. Bainiwal said this form of martial arts is deeply infused in the Sikh religion; the sixth guru first used this technique on the battlefield.
“It’s more spiritual and more meditative,” Bainiwal said.
Members of the San Jose Sikh temple lobbied their global community to host this competition. In April, the second phase of construction on the temple was complete, making the $32 million, 110,000-square-foot complex the largest and most expensive in the country.
The gatka competitions will be held on one stage inside the worship hall and on one outdoor stage. The temple is at 3636 Murillo Ave. and the contest runs from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. The public is invited to watch for free.
To watch gatka videos, go to www.yudh.net.
It’s not TCMA…
but it’s pretty cool…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15480741
(started here to get attention, until it’s banished to another forum)
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1140063]but it’s pretty cool…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15480741
(started here to get attention, until it’s banished to another forum)[/QUOTE]
ok, it’s cool. But does it go beyond society for creative anachronism like any other ancient battlefield art that can’t really be practical or applied with efficacy in this day and age?
wearing armoured shoes with bladed tips isn’t de rigueur these days you know.
Thanks for sharing that - what a shame if this art was lost.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1140064]ok, it’s cool. But does it go beyond society for creative anachronism like any other ancient battlefield art that can’t really be practical or applied with efficacy in this day and age?[/QUOTE]
no, it does not; it is purey a cultural heritage convention; like a lot of TCMA…
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1140064]wearing armoured shoes with bladed tips isn’t de rigueur these days you know.[/QUOTE]
u apparently do not work in the field of healthcare… 
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1140064]ok, it’s cool. But does it go beyond society for creative anachronism like any other ancient battlefield art that can’t really be practical or applied with efficacy in this day and age?
wearing armoured shoes with bladed tips isn’t de rigueur these days you know.[/QUOTE]
some people like to attach electrodes to their genitals. some people like to help preserve their rich and ancient traditional cultures.
Very cool.
… the article specified that it’s not a system intended for combat but for entertainment.
Very cool.
… the article specified that it’s not a system intended for combat but for entertainment.
Really? thats the only thing you take away from that article? WOW…LMAO
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1140158]Very cool.
… the article specified that it’s not a system intended for combat but for entertainment.[/QUOTE]
You misread. The other practice mentioned was used for entertainment.
Also, TCMA missed “the list” but still a force to be reckoned with, historically. 
http://listverse.com/2010/04/20/top-10-greatest-historical-warriors/
[QUOTE=bawang;1140088]some people like to attach electrodes to their genitals. some people like to help preserve their rich and ancient traditional cultures.[/QUOTE]
and for some people, that’s the same thing! :eek:
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1140064]ok, it’s cool. But does it go beyond society for creative anachronism like any other ancient battlefield art that can’t really be practical or applied with efficacy in this day and age?
Some misunderstandings perhaps. The person in the video is trying to revive shastar vidya as an art. The total art has indeed faded. But, Part of it is not creative anachronism. The weapons shown were actually used not too long ago. Parts of it are extant.
The Sikh sword is till alive in the gathka and there are Sikhs who practice gathka. Real Sikhs still carry the kirpan- the Sikh dagger. The lathi is practiced by Sikhs and many non Sikhs.
Some of the other weapons are old Indian weapons. But the trishul-- the three pronged spear is still carried by some wandering ascetics.And some right wing fanatics came out witha few in some marches.
In the massive violence in the Punjab and Bengal in the 1940s which resulted in huge migrations- many kinds of weapons were used.
I just came back from Inida where I traveled by train, plane, cycle rickshaw and bus. In a desert area I traveled by bus. The bus driver wa a congenial Sikh. He had a Sikh sword behind his seat for practicing gathka. It would have been foolish for anyone to take over his bus.
joy chaudhuri