[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;895729]Oh no, Anerlich in his new gi…:eek: Please don’t post a picture of that on this forum! The wing chun gods will freak out! 
:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Wing Chun people don’t wear gi’s? Do they? Sheeot. Gotta change the track pants and adidias shirts in for a new gi. D@mn. And here I thought Impossible Is Nothing.
LOL!
Wing Chun people don’t wear gi’s?
They do when they take BJJ classes for gi.
Museumtech, I’m not normally there on Wednesdays (BJJ night at another academy) but I’ll see what I can do. I AM there on Thursdays.
On the original subject, IMO WC has to have the forms, bummy, chi sao (and kiu sao, however you define that) and the traditional weapons so that it remains a TCMA. Without those it ceases to be WC.
That said, you don’t always have to do it exactly the way your master and their master said. This stuff is supposed to be a framework for contructive thought, not something to snuff it out.
[QUOTE=anerlich;895801]They do when they take BJJ classes for gi.[/QUOTE]
I know this. Guess my sarcasm-fu is weak. LOL
[QUOTE=anerlich;895801]On the original subject, IMO WC has to have the forms, bummy, chi sao (and kiu sao, however you define that) and the traditional weapons so that it remains a TCMA. Without those it ceases to be WC…[/QUOTE]There’s no bummy in my wing chun! :eek:
BTW, I forgot the history and I forgot the politics. Does that mean I don’t need to read this thread? 
There’s no bummy in my wing chun!
My condolences
Forget the History, Forget the Politics
That’s a hard thing to do and IMO made increasingly harder with each new thread reminding people of the problems of history and politics. Might be easier to just not harbor resentment towards others whose history and politics differ from yours.
Might even be easier if ALL the history and politics were just put aside and people got back to the basics as to what works and what doesn’t in a martial setting…
as we don’t need history lessons or individual political chest-beating to see what’s what when the fighting/sparring/rolling is live.
[QUOTE=Museumtech;895686]… into linage bashing or ****ing contests (can I say that here?) …[/QUOTE]Pssing? Works for me .
Might even be easier if ALL the history and politics were just put aside and people got back to the basics as to what works and what doesn’t in a martial setting…
You left out and just focus on your own training.
as we don’t need history lessons or individual political chest-beating to see what’s what when the fighting/sparring/rolling is live.
“we” sounds like there is either some history or politics behind that.
[QUOTE=canglong;895861]… “we” sounds like there is either some history or politics behind that.[/QUOTE]LOLorama… 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…
[QUOTE=Toby;895840]****ing? Works for me .[/QUOTE]
When I tried it ****ing turned into ****ing. Is it the use of a capital P?
Peter
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;895829]Might even be easier if ALL the history and politics were just put aside and people got back to the basics as to what works and what doesn’t in a martial setting…
as we don’t need history lessons or individual political chest-beating to see what’s what when the fighting/sparring/rolling is live.[/QUOTE]
This is funny, are you saying your training became easier when you started ignoring history? How does studying history, culture, etc effect your training in any way? They are 2 seperate things!
Personally, I find the history aspect of WC to be quite interesting! I also think it enriches the learning experience. But I don’t think anyone is silly enough to think that it makes thier fighting abilities any better. Are you saying I should give it up and then magically my fighting will improve?
If not, what do you care if people want to study history and share what they’ve found?
“Are you saying I should give it up and then magically my fighting will improve?
If not, what do you care if people want to study history and share what they’ve found?”
***WHAT I’m saying is that if most of the time and energy so many people spend getting involved in the history, lineage, and politics was spent training instead…
yeah, fighting abilities would improve.
It’s just basic common sense.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;896008]
***WHAT I’m saying is that if most of the time and energy so many people spend getting involved in the history, lineage, and politics was spent training instead…
yeah, fighting abilities would improve.
It’s just basic common sense.[/QUOTE]
So what you are saying is that instead of having any other hobbies or interests, if we’re going to be students of WC, we should spend every free moment in phisical training and forget the rest of our lives.
If that’s the case then we should never see you here again right? How much different is time spent on these forums vs. time spent learning history..
Do you even think these things through when you write them?? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;895921]But I don’t think anyone is silly enough to think that it makes thier fighting abilities any better.[/QUOTE]
To the contrary, I think an exceeding majority actual are silly enough to think just that.
That’s not even worth a response, JP…
Victor, the time you spend reading, writing, and debating online is enough time to get a Ph D in history or politics and extra time for training.
Attacking me does not negate the premise of this thread.
I don’t attend seminar-after-seminar, class-after-class, meeting-after-meeting, read book-after-book, article-after-article…and yes, get involved in thread-after-thread…
devoted to wing chun history.
Which is what many people can’t seem to get enough of.
And the lineage and politics discussions and debates have grown very old - so I try to avoid them as much as possible at this point.
My primary interest has always been either actually doing, (ie.- as in training), or discussing various fighting methods, training methods, strategies, principles, and techniques THAT WORK under pressure.
And the premise of this thread is that if you call yourself a wing chun man and you’re spending a great deal of your time still doing the history and politics thing as we approach 2009…
seminars, classes, books, articles, discussions, meetings, debates, etc…
you’re helping wing chun become antiquated and irrelevant. There’s really no getting around that fact anymore. For anybody. Regardless of what lineage they come from. Or what is the history (or supposed history) of that lineage…or anything else…the politics of who’s-who, or the alleged unbeatable quality of the wing chun method in question, etc.
Because wing chun is being left behind. The martial arts world has taken a giant leap forward within the last 15 years or so - and wing chun, for the most part, is watching from the sidelines.
Why?
Because instead of spending most of their time pressure testing to find out what wing chun works and what doesn’t - people are engaging in history lessons and trying to figure out (and shuffle) the politics of who’s who.
And the lineage and politics discussions and debates have grown very old - so I try to avoid them as much as possible at this point.
That would explain why you started this thread. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;896074]
The martial arts world has taken a giant leap forward within the last 15 years or so [/QUOTE]
Has it though? In terms of controlled competitions I would agree with this (such as MMA). In terms of real pressure testing? I would think martial arts was at its peak when it was actually the primary means of killing someone in war, i.e. centuries ago (or less, depending on the civilization). I think modern MA still laggs way behind the true peak of MA. Even with the advances of the past 15 years or so I believe it still pales in comparison.
Now, in terms of the past 50 years it is probably at its peak. I would assume that the martial arts craze over the last half-century or so watered down the arts (as well as its secondary or tertiary role in war-time combat).
Please don’t take this to mean that I think WC is too deadly of an art to pressure test, not meant for competitions, etc. or that competitions aren’t valid forms of pressure testing. I am just saying that the true peak of martial arts was during a time when more people needed to use martial arts to survive.