NF I think it’s just politics which kills more things than gives birth to & I don’t understand BH reply but it don’t matter as just opinion. Many great hands don’t come from Shaolin & many really bad hands claim Shaolin so it is balanced for the political peoples who claim all is Shaolin & they get the bad too. Shaolin hands & I mean real Shaolin hands are good not a doubt & BH claims the saying means all ways covered by Shaolin Monks & this isn’t right & nothing like Hakka Tong Long in Shaolin I ever see & I haven’t seen all but I’ve seen some over the years. If Pak Mei story true & I think it’s made up tale & Pak Mei Hung Mei fight all a story that never happen then some same types of ging in Shaolin hand maybe as in Hakka Tong Long but not exact in a lot of places. I know another hand claimed as Shaolin & it not Shaolin at all & saying it is is politics by PRC government & others. Credit where credit is due & leave politics out of art & everyone given a chance to be their best with their talents. Just my opinion & others say different but I don’t argue with them. HKV your teacher a smart person & if more people take the time to learn about other hands & not try to learn hands just learn about then we would all get along better & respect differences & admire same things found in different hands. Too much fighting with words over style & the man put behind the style & I think this is wrong & it is man first then style so fighting words over style deny the man & this is the wrong way. Fact I think.
Well, in any case, looks like I inadvertently started a troll, so please don’t feed it :eek:
I don’t think that Chinese sayings and proverbs were ever meant to be taken literally, given the demonstrated propensity of Chinese wisemen to mysticize and obfuscate, probably to make people think and reflect more. So it’s obvious to me that all Chinese expressions have multiple levels of meaning.
Case in point: the Tao Te Ching.
Also I didn’t mean to offend anyone, but IMO anyone who likes to get offended will usually find a way to become so.
Peace to all my MA brothers.
Good all things so clear for you BH & you’re arrogant & no more speaking with you since you know everything & I’m just a stupid man who can’t understand your so great wisdom & no problem as life will set your defect right.
BH,
Muslim, Tibetan, Manchurian, Mongolian, Taoist, Hakka etc, none of these can really be said to be ‘Shaolin’. even most of the systems that call themselves Shaolin are really derivative at best.
To be fully Shaolin, training would have to be ‘Ch’an’ in spirit and practice, and, there would have to be authentic unbroken transmission from Master to Master.
Such things are very rare.
It’s reasonably common these days to find non-Shaolin and even non-Buddhisty arts using the 'Ming-Shall-Overcome-The Ching hand salute (in various forms) - which is associated by many with Shaolin, but, is really a political statement about Chinese patriotism against the Manchu’s.
I would class my own learning in Bak-Siu-Lum and Hung-Gar as ‘derivative’ from a Shaolin Buddhist tradtion, rather than being a direct transmission in lineage from Bodhidharma (Da Mo) himself.
Without the essence of Ch’an practice how could it be otherwise?
‘Shaolin’ derived martial arts as a patriotic political movement, has its place in TCMA history and culture - that is good enough in itself. But, its a long way from making authentic claim that all styles come from Siu-Lum.
As for people taking offence, that’s inevitable, as very few of us on internet forums ever meet and exchange anything remotely resembling a decent conversation with one another. Given how quickly many Chinese themselves lead by example in taking offence, then perhaps its no wonder.
Couldn’t that first quote also mean that no matter what fighting style you practice, it’s all the same at the highest levels?
Originally posted by Diamond Talons
Good all things so clear for you BH & you’re arrogant & no more speaking with you since you know everything & I’m just a stupid man who can’t understand your so great wisdom & no problem as life will set your defect right.
All I can say is:
I really hope your joking.
Otherwise, what does it have to do with the topic?
Mastery?
What will you do after?
I plan to teach.
Originally posted by Diamond Talons
Good all things so clear for you BH & you’re arrogant & no more speaking with you since you know everything & I’m just a stupid man who can’t understand your so great wisdom & no problem as life will set your defect right.
I really really really hope you are joking. Otherwise . . . ? mei jiu. - hopeless.
What was the topic?
Mastry?
What will you do after?
I plan to teach.
OTF I not joking around & never joke about such stuff & what it relates to topic is BH saying one thing & that it’s clear to him which means if others can’t see it then they’re not as good as him. What does your post have to do with topic OTF & why you butt in when noone talking to you & are you a troll?
DT,
I understand you take this stuff very seriously.
I felt you were veering off topic because originally this thread was: What do you plan to do after ‘mastering’ your current style?
When you say things such as…
Good all things so clear for you BH & you’re arrogant & no more speaking with you since you know everything & I’m just a stupid man who can’t understand your so great wisdom & no problem as life will set your defect right.
… you sound sarcastic and insulting. I think BH’s views are reasonable, even if they are wrong. I don’t think he was trying to imply he knows everything or that anyone who disagrees with him is just stupid.
Also, I have heard in gong-fu, it’s better to be stupid and persistant than smart and lazy.
p.s
I am fascinated by some of your posts but find them difficult to understand. I assume english is not your native tongue. Are you Chinese? It’s not really important, I’m just curious.
I don’t say BH is wrong OTF as this is personal matter what I say is that saying that things clear to him means if others don’t agree then it is cloudy to them & it is their shortcoming & not what BH says. You say you read my posts then ask my ethnic group how is this so & if you read my posts then you know the answer by what I say & what I say isn’t important the only thing I’m doing is clearing way for young guys that want to do Internet stuff & old guys scared it’s going to cause problems. Funny stuff as there are good people on forum & those that do politics & troll stuff are no problem as they are all cowards who box with their fingers on keyboard only so I say to old guys no problems just a mix of people some good & some full of crap. Hope it’s true about stupid and keep at it as I’m a stupid man with not a real 6th grade education & had to stop school to help family with money things & noone has crossed hands with me & say I’m no good for years now. Okay OTF I try with BH again if he wants & posts some stuff I might know a little bit about okay.
SoulJah
souljah…what style are you learning?
are you interested in gettin into the film side of kung fu…behind the scenes chroreography and stuff???
yuen wo-ping is the best…he truly is amazing!
Back on topic!
I think it is a fair question about finishing a style.
Of course we all hopefully can and will continue to practice and explore the systems we spend so many years learning.
However many people I think can get the feeling of stagnation within their chosen system, if for instance after learning all the forms, drills, weapons, jings etc, and practicing them to a competent level they are left only with continually honing the skills they have.
Many people are happy to continue practice, but an equal amount feel the need to explore other systems along side this practice.
So in answer to the question:
Having spent an amount of time learning my chosen style, I decided to look at other arts, not just to go learn them willy-nilly, because I already have skills in what I regard as an excellent system. But to explore other ways of doing things. To see why others have chosen their particular system, and most importantly to gain a far greater understanding of my primary style.
With a certain amount of skill in one style, surely this gives us the opportunity to be far more open minded and comfortable with the idea of exploring others.
Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t think dabbling in many styles is a good idea, but intelligent study of a second system can only be a good thing.
Personally again, I tried to find out as much as possible about several styles that seemed interesting. I then chose to begin study of Xing Yi Quan.
I find the Xing Yi complements and in many ways enhances the Lau Gar Kuen i’ve spent 15 years learning, so although I still have a long way to go before completing the Lau Gar system, (there are several weapons forms still to learn), I felt the time was right to tread a wider path.
My Xing Yi Sifu has Studied Chow Gar Tong Long for 30 years, and when we were discussing learning other systems he said that when the time is right you will know!
Merry Christmas!!
Colin…
Yes I pretty much agree with that
In some styles sifus advise their students to learn another style other than their current one after mastery if not just to broaden their MA knowledge but in general and get a variation in teaching and allow them to explore the possibilities , as you said colin - “intelligent study of a second system can only be a good thing”
I agree totally.
mizong
I study a family kung fu system called rei - do not take the name as a sign of it being japanese as it is a basic translation my teacher made and each letter is just the first letter of a different word (sorry- so i should call it r.e.i)
soul
I don’t know about study another style like in bai shi & stuff but it is best to test against hands not your own I think & for me no sense in becoming good against Hakka Tong Long only as we are a small group & not much chance of running into someone trying to fight me who is Hakka Tong Long. It is good to test against many many different hands & as many as I can find I test against when I was a young man & I think it helped me not become full of Hakka Tong Long only good stuff crap & miss out on all the good stuff around & made some friends too. Just for me it worked out okay I think.
DT,
I love your posts. I know you like to fight. It comes through without sounding like your bragging. I’m really sorry if you though the wuestion about ethnicity was insulting. I’m training in China right now, took the time to learn the language and am sure my Chinese sounds like crap to my Sifu.
I dropped out of college to go study this stuff and I’m still embarrased about not having my degree. I enjoy seeing unapologetic *******s out there roughing up the scholars.
Keep it up.
Feel free to tell me anytime you think I’m full of Sh!t.
°×ÀÖÎÄ
Hi OTF I’m glad you got to go where you wanted to learn what you study & I think a small break in school okay so long as you don’t wake up one morning an old man like me with education still waiting & no more time for such things so I’m stuck with being stupid & it’s my fault so I don’t complain I just say what is. No problems asking who my people are but if a person say who are your people I say all people on the Earth is who they are & I never hear any religion person talk about God’s Grandchildren so I think we’re all children of God with noone better or worst for color or shape of eyes or stuff like that. Just for me it works best that way & I try to tell young guys to get away from Han center of all & enjoy the good we bring to the world and respect the good other peoples bring to the world too. Big place with room for all I think & this is what life has taught me so I say it just for me & tell young guys to think about it & maybe it’s for them too.