I lost balance doing a double fingerstand and hyper-extended the index finger. It doesn’t hurt, except when I lift heavy, and the knuckles are spaced ****her apart then before the accident. I don’t have health insurance so it’s kind of scary. Any one have a hyper-extended finger before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Ice it for 20 mins. every 2 hours for the first 4 days. Then alternate heat and ice every two hours.
Rest is the only thing that will heal your injury, so avoid antagonizing your injury. It will likely take a year or so to heal if it is a serious injury. You have injured your tendons most likely and these do not have much blood flow to them so it will take a looooong time to heal.
Needless to say it was stupid to do finger stands. They offer no long term benefit to anything other than bragging rights and ooohs and aaahs from people who are easily impressed by unusual and useless skills!
what Scott said, although the healing time can vary, and there are some treatment options beyond resting, but most that you can’t do yourself really; also, if after the acute phase has passed and you notice either a) significant hypermobility of the joint or b) significant loss of range / deformity w/ loss of volitional movement, you may have seriously damaged either the extensor or flexor retinaculum, which is the series interconnections in the fingers of tendon / ligament which is rather complex; if so, you may want to go see a hand specialist, because if you do have serious injury, you want to get it treated as it won’t just heal on its own;
of course, everything may be fine on its own, but i’d avoid reinjury like the plague
Even if you had health insurance the dumb doctors would give you the same crappy advice you just got. Ice for two days and then use heat? A$$inine. You only use heat when the swelling and redness have gone down. Otherwise you’ll make it worse. Ice is horrible for injuries.
Dude,
Your injury won’t heal on its own as stated by the other two. It’ll hurt for months and years.
What state do you live in? You need to seek out an acupuncturist who can do bone realignments. He or she will probably know about liniments to rub externally. Acupuncture will help A LITTLE but you need to find a BONESETTER. The joints have to be physically and painfully moved back into place by someone or it will never heal right. I study injuries and like learning about them. Or find a Kung Fu practioner that is also a bonestter. Very rare these days. If you can’t find one of those than seek out an osteopath. NOT and orthopdedic specialist. An osteopath.
Use ice only if you don’t have any dit da jow.
What state are you in? Maybe I can recommend someone
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]Even if you had health insurance the dumb doctors would give you the same crappy advice you just got. Ice for two days and then use heat? A$$inine. You only use heat when the swelling and redness have gone down. Otherwise you’ll make it worse. Ice is horrible for injuries.
Dude,
Your injury won’t heal on its own as stated by the other two. It’ll hurt for months and years.
What state do you live in? You need to seek out an acupuncturist who can do bone realignments. He or she will probably know about liniments to rub externally. Acupuncture will help A LITTLE but you need to find a BONESETTER. The joints have to be physically and painfully moved back into place by someone or it will never heal right. I study injuries and like learning about them. Or find a Kung Fu practioner that is also a bonestter. Very rare these days. If you can’t find one of those than seek out an osteopath. NOT and orthopdedic specialist. An osteopath.
Use ice only if you don’t have any dit da jow.
What state are you in? Maybe I can recommend someone[/QUOTE]
do you typically make ridiculous unqualified statements about everything, or only things you obviously have no idea about?
first, you need to work on your reading comprehension, because nowhere did I state that it would necessarily heal on its own; in fact, I spent most of my post discussing a scenario where it wouldn’t - so where are you getting this from?
you should really not give out advice on this sort of thing, as your comments are all over the pace and misleading at best;
for example, considering that you haven’t directly examined him, how do you know for certain it won’t heal on its own?
how do you know that it needs to be “painfully” moved back into place? there are lots of non-painful ways to manually correct this sort of thing, if indicated;
why are you suggesting an osteopath instead of an orthopedist? most osteopaths are primary care providers who would have no idea what to do with that sort of thing - if you are thinking about OMT, 98% of DO’s don’t want to know from that; and with the hand, you really want a specialist - either an ortho hand guy, or an OT / PT who is a CHT
and why are you suggesting he seek out an unlicensed “kung fu bonesetter”? if he sees someone who is unlicensed and they make it worse, he’s screwed; and he has no way of knowing how that person would have been trained; and why on earth would you have someone do a reduction without the benefit of radiographs?
and why do you say ice is terrible, but then recommend it in the absence of jow? either it’s terrible or it’s not; if it is, then that would preclude it, not make it a second choice; if it’s ok to use, then it’s not terrible, although it may not be preferable; so which is it?
and what are your qualifications to dispense advice, aside from liking injuries?
and spend a day in a doctor’s shoes before calling them “dumb”; you have no idea what you are taking about, and come across as a real jerk when you say that;
amended answer
hellswindstaff:
having reviewed my first answer, I realized I didn’t contextualize it sufficiently; so I’ll do it again;
now, not having examined you directly, I can’t say for sure what happened, but based on what you described, that you have a change in the alignment of the joint, you may have some actual damage in there; so, first off, your not having insurance notwithstanding, the optimal thing to do is to go have your finger examined by an orthopedist, preferably one who is a hand specialist; the reason for this is not necessarily for what they might tell you to do, but for what they will hopefully rule out, which is stuff like fractures, avulsions, tears of the ligaments, etc; if you don’t have anything major, then you might be fine just resting / icing it, all the stuff mentioned above; dit da jow would also be helpful here as well;
as far as treatment options, you could find an OT or PT who is a Certified Hand Specialist (CHT), or a PT who is well-trained manually (that can be hard to determine, unfortunately); an osteopath who practices OMT could be good as well; a chiropractor could conceivably help as well, it depends; same with an acupuncturist - in general, it’s as much about the practitioner as it is about the license;
as for a “bonesetter”, manual reduction of fractures / dislocations is not within the scope of practice of acupuncturists, as far as I am aware - although it may be different from one state to another - you can easily check that out; and I would strongly suggest not to go to someone who is unlicensed like a “kung fu bonesetter”, not that they might not be good, but as I mentioned in the post above, if they mess you up, you have no recourse; also, having you joint put back into place, so to speak, may not be what is indicated - and I would strongly suggest not having someone attempt to reduce / realign (especially forcibly) without taking films first; and as far as the reduction needing to be painful, there is no reason for that - reductions done by MDs can be done under local anesthesia, or there are manual techniques that can do it without pain, albeit more slowly;
I hate to be the voice of reason, but I think a medical professional should take a look.. Call around, talk to friends.. find someone that can cut you a break and give you some good advice and treatment. I don’t see this injury getting better with no treatment.
I’ll reply more thoroughly in the morning.
Tai gh,
your rational for him to see a doctor is that he’ll be able to sue if anything goes awry. In many cases going to a doc is a este of time. This is especially true with orthopedic injuries. Doctors don’t know how to treat sprained ankles.
Who decided that ice was the proper treatment and where is it proven that this ice strategy works? It’s never worked for me
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961324]I’ll reply more thoroughly in the morning.
Tai gh,
your rational for him to see a doctor is that he’ll be able to sue if anything goes awry. In many cases going to a doc is a este of time. This is especially true with orthopedic injuries. Doctors don’t know how to treat sprained ankles.
Who decided that ice was the proper treatment and where is it proven that this ice strategy works? It’s never worked for me[/QUOTE]
That is because ice doesn’t work on idiots!
You have got to be one of the dumbest people I have ever read on this board!
Since I’m so dumb please explain EXACTLy how ice helps to heal? You probably have no idea since you’re just towing the party line.
After injury occurs it swells. The way the body tries to heal it after the initial system shock is by getting the old blood out(reducing the swelling) and then sending fresh blood in to send nutrients and help clean even more old blood out.
Here’s where ice becomes useful…and usless at the sNe time. Ice reduces swelling which is why people say to do it but the problem is is that ice freezes the old dead blood cells there. This slows the healing process down considerably because the new blood has a harder time of getting through.
I said to use ice IF he can’t find someone quickly to treat it. Sometimes you have to use what you have. If his car crashed in the woods, and injury occured, a steam of cold water is better than nothing until he can get REAL help.
Are you two able to articulate how ice and an orthopedic specialist will help this gentleman? Please be exact and desciptive as I was. This should be funny
Chris is a physical therapist and i’m a nurse who has also worked at a physical therapy facility. I’ll let Chris educate you more thoroughly. He does it much better than I. Suffice it to say, you do not ice so long that it does damage. 15-25 mins. every 2 hrs. for the the first 3-4 days. Do NOT apply the ice directly to the site, under most circumstances. Use a dry cloth barrier to keep from freezing the site. I use a pillow case or an old T-shirt. After 3-4 days alternating ice and heat may be of benefit. For example, heat before therapy or training then ice afterwards. Also oral anti-inflammatories are also of benefit. Have you never heard of R.I.C.E.? Rest. Ice, Compression, Elevate! I am sure Chris will be happy to provide you with so many details it will easily confound your simple mind. You have no idea what detailed is! Your post was NOT detailed in the least. Chris will make mincemeat out of your foolishness if he is so inclined!
Scott,
you just gave the most BASIC info that i learned when I got my first black eye. I was 8 years old and what you described was exactly what my friends mom(housewife) did for me. Are you telling me that, even after all your years of training, you know as much as my friends mother who has a high school diploma. Maybe Barack will bail you out for your education cause you were ripped off.
The fact that you threw your resume at me and insulted me shows that you really have no knowledge to argue with in this situAtion. It’s so sad. We were having a discussion and you hurled insults bacause you can’t argue with words and knowlegde.
I went to a physical therapapist ONCE. She moved my leg around for me. I thought to myself, “self, why are you paying someone to do what you can do by yourself for free?”. An orthopod specialist referred me because he didn’t know what was going on. He didn’t even touch the injured site or have me undress so he could view it. He looked at an x-Ray and said, “Hmm. I think there’s definitely something going on there”. Thanks, genious. I already knew that since it hurts like hell
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961324]your rational for him to see a doctor is that he’ll be able to sue if anything goes awry.[/QUOTE]
not the main one; that is one rationale, and a pretty good one, falling under the general heading of “accountability”, which utimatey is there for the client / patient’s “protection”: if you are unlicensed, then the client has no way to verify your training and no recourse if something untoward happens; if you can be held accountable, it helps keep you on your best game
however, my PRIMARY reason to tell him to go to a doc is because if he has had significant injury of the retinaculum, it’s best determined via MRI, not clinical diagnosis; and only an MD can order that test; if you actually read my post correctly, you would know that; that’s the second time you have clearly misrepresented what I wrote; why do you have such trouble with basic reading comprehension?
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961324] In many cases going to a doc is a este of time. This is especially true with orthopedic injuries. Doctors don’t know how to treat sprained ankles. [/QUOTE]
again, the doc is there to diagnose and, more importantly, rule out serious things like fracture, avulsion, etc.; and while it is true that most orthos don’t “know” how to treat a sprained ankle, what they are trained to do and know how to do well is repair things that are more serious; similarly, if it’s just a soft tissue strain / sprain, sure, the ortho won’t “do” anything; but if it’s more serious, he is the one, and the only one, who can do a direct repair;
you seem very down on docs to the point of making sweeping generalizations; while I agree that there are many docs I wouldn’t go near, there are others who are excellent, like any profession; but you seem to have some other issues…
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961324]Who decided that ice was the proper treatment and where is it proven that this ice strategy works? It’s never worked for me[/QUOTE]
ice works to decrease the initial swelling associated with trauma; it is one method of decreasing inflammation and pain; it is most useful during the initial acute phase; during sub-acute and chronic, it is of no real benefit; there are things that personally I find more effective even in acute phase, but this is one of the easiest and most accessible forms and does not require skilled intervention; of course, jow is also good, but it depends on the formula and most people don’t have access to jow specific for acute trauma;
BTW, what do you personally know about how to best treat a sprained ankle, based on your direct experience doing so?
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961394]I went to a physical therapapist ONCE. She moved my leg around for me. I thought to myself, “self, why are you paying someone to do what you can do by yourself for free?”. [/QUOTE]
so you went to a bad PT; of which, sad to say, there are many;TBH, I personally wouldn’t let 90% of PT’s out there touch me; so you need to keep looking until you find a good one;
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961324] An orthopod specialist referred me because he didn’t know what was going on. He didn’t even touch the injured site or have me undress so he could view it. He looked at an x-Ray and said, “Hmm. I think there’s definitely something going on there”. Thanks, genious. I already knew that since it hurts like hell[/QUOTE]
again, the value of what he did was not to identify what was there, but what wasn’t - so he ruled out serious pathology (e.g. - a tumor, which can cause musculoskeetal symptoms) or significant trauma from the event
in general, you seem like you have an axe to grind, and to want to condemn entire professions for some negative experiences on your part; at the same time, you seem to think that every acupuncturist out there would do a better job; as such, you may want to recognize your own biased agenda before dispensing advice;
BTW, what were your qualifications to speak with any authority on the topic of injury management? aside from getting your black eye treated by your neighbor, that is…
I never said all acupuncturists would be best for this gentleman. I stated he should find one that does bone setting.
If he ices it, sees an orthopod, goes to a PT… at best all he can hope for is pain to go away. It will hurt when the weather is damp and or cold. Can you explain why old I juries ache when a rain storm is about o hit? Can a doctor explain that? His finger pain will stop eventually but his stretched out ligaments will remain so. His hand will never be what it was.
Of course my views are biased toward what I believe just like yours are biased toward a biomedical point of view. We are merely arguing our views accept you consider yours to be the ultimate truth.
People don’t have to walk around swallowing pain pills for the rest of their lives. Alternative medicine has much more to offer than conventional methods. I find it funny that Chinese medicine is considered alternative especially since your view of medicine only came around about 200 years ago. A doctor’s job is to identify and not treat? That’s basically what you’re saying. Your system has made doctors into infants. It’s true they don’t do much but try to identify pathologies. Pharmacists are the real doctors. Orthopods only treat serious injuries? There are more sprained ankles than “serious” injuries so it would make sense for them to learn more about treating sprain ankles. One orthopod told my brother he needed surgery on both knees to correct his knee cap alignment. TWO surgeries! Your defense, and others, is that this was a bad doctor or bad PT. Of couse you’re not a bad PT. That’s such a bad defense.
I’ve been dealing with injuries my whole life. I severely twisted my ankle and I did the RICE thing for a long time. Guess what? It clicks, and aches, and is loose. It’s chronically screwed up.
My credentials do not matter. All that matters is what I’m saying. Your credentials and Scott’s didn’t make your advice any wiser. A license to practice is also a license to give out bad advice and have trusting good people believe you.
How would I treat a sprain ankle? I would use a lancet to bleed thr swollen areas to allow fresh blood flow. Then I would massage it to get even more swelling down unlessnit is severely swollen. In that case I’d apply cooling herbs and have them come back the next day. After more massage i’d execute a bone set which is very painless in the ankle region. Then I’d show exercises for rehab.
I’m not trying to be hostile here. I’m saying that short of surgery going to a specialist won’t correct his finger hyperextension.
I typed all this from my phone while at work. It wasn’t easy
Oh yeah forgot to mention this. I have treated sprain ankles as well as other injuries using the above methods. Those methods are much faster than having a patient see 20 doctors who all need a referral. I’ve been treating a lot of shoulder issues lately.
I was actually hoping to get to a licensed TCM doctor but making sure that I get an MRI instead of a clinical diagnosis is a definite will do.
p.s.- Why does everyone argue so much on this forum? Jeez.
We argue because there’s too many liberals around! Just kidding…sorta.
We were discussing different points of view. Of course find someone licensed. I study acupuncture and I know that, by itself, can only do a little for you. Try to find someone with some bodywork skills as well.
we argue because we cant beat the living snot out of each other, so we have to bicker with text 
I was thinking along the lines of a Tuina practitioner.
lawdy, lawdy, lawdy…
I guess that you really want to get into it; ok, fine;
first off, let’s start with the last part of your most recent post:
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]I’m not trying to be hostile here . [/QUOTE]
really?!? well, that’s an interesting thing to write, considering the very first thing you posted on this thread:
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]Even if you had health insurance the dumb doctors would give you the same crappy advice you just got. Ice for two days and then use heat? A$$inine.[/QUOTE]
oh no, no hostility there at all (:rolleyes:); BTW, that’s a heck of a way to initiate a discourse on a clinical matter; and you wonder why you have engendered a generally negative response!
now, let’s look at this next brilliant statement:
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]My credentials do not matter. [/QUOTE]
oh, indeed? I think it matters considerably; first off, by your answer, it’s clear that you have none, and you obviously have some insecurity about that, since you can’t just come out and say it; conversely, when Scott gave you our credentials, you took it as some sort of boast, as opposed to simply statement of fact in order to establish the context out of which we were speaking (and you may notice that it was not the first thing either of us mentioned);
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]All that matters is what I’m saying.[/QUOTE]
yes, and what exactly are you saying? well, here’s one statement worth examining:
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]Your injury won’t heal on its own as stated by the other two. It’ll hurt for months and years.[/QUOTE]
first off, how do you know any of this? you haven’t examined him, you have no idea whether or not his injury will heal on its own or not; you have no idea if it will hurt for months and years - you just don’t know and there is no way to know without having seen him and treated him; if you had a professional practice of any sort, you would know this; but you don’t and therefore talk out of your asz with the assurance that can only come from an amateur;
here’s another:
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300] The joints have to be physically and painfully moved back into place by someone or it will never heal right. [/QUOTE]
oh, really? again, how do you know this for certain? and what’s more, why are you so sure that the maneuver has to be a painful one?
anyway, moving on:
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961442]I never said all acupuncturists would be best for this gentleman. I stated he should find one that does bone setting.[/QUOTE]
which may not be legal under an acupuncturist’s scope of practice act in a given state, BTW, if it involves mobilization of a joint
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]If he ices it, sees an orthopod, goes to a PT… at best all he can hope for is pain to go away. It will hurt when the weather is damp and or cold. [/QUOTE]
again, you don’t know that for certain; it would depend a lot on what the PT does;
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]Can you explain why old I juries ache when a rain storm is about o hit? [/QUOTE]
yes; do you actually want me to?!?
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300] Can a doctor explain that? [/QUOTE]
I don’t know; let’s find one and ask him / her;
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]His finger pain will stop eventually but his stretched out ligaments will remain so. His hand will never be what it was.[/QUOTE]
first off, ligaments that are torn may or may not repair, it depends on the severity; and if they are strained, they can restore their original length / tension on their own, but it depends on the degree, location, etc. of the injury; but other structures will also come into play to compensate, and quite frankly his hand could be just fine functionally; but again, you don’t know that - it may be fine, it may not be;
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;961300]Of course my views are biased toward what I believe just like yours are biased toward a biomedical point of view. We are merely arguing our views accept you consider yours to be the ultimate truth. [/QUOTE]
lol; nice try to make it all just a matter of opinion; first, you have NO idea what my actual views are, because I have not expressed them here - you just jump to conclusions and make assumptions because it suits your contrarian perspective; second, it’s not a question of truth, it’s a question of efficacy, reliability and reproducibility, which both systems have to varying degrees and under different contexts: TCM, by its nature, is metaphorical (e.g. - with the organs, it describes small and large interactive patterns that it ascribes to different viscera, but not the actual organs or what they do from a biophysiological standpoint) whereas biomedical model looks at what actually goes on; what they have in common is that both are empirical, but TCM was limited by the available technology of the times, so it focused on what it could describe, and did so in as comprehensive manner as was possible; but because it relies so heavily on the operator’s personal skill level, it is a highly subjective practice (which is fine), as opposed to biomedical, which is relatively objective (e.g. - two TCM practitioners will read the pulse very differently and still treat effectively, where as 100 different MD’s can draw blood and test it and get the same results; and each approach has its strengths and weaknesses, BTW); so don’t go and paint me as some sort of biomedical absolutist because it suits your contrarian agenda