i once saw these pictures of some japanese dude eating a featus, but it was fake. it was duck with a babydolls head on it. what a jokester!
[QUOTE=SevenStar;763021]
I am not saying that animal styles are ineffective - what I am saying is I don’t understand why they tried to pattern themselves after animals, thinking that it would make them more effective than had they remained fighting like humans.[/QUOTE]
… Because many human fighting meathods such as mouth boxing and food fighting aren’t as effective as animal meathods.
remember that cooking show “two fat ladies”? on one of their shows, they cooked a placenta. They said it was a delicacy in some parts of the world.
[QUOTE=Becca;763387]… Because many human fighting meathods such as mouth boxing and food fighting aren’t as effective as animal meathods.[/QUOTE]
food fighting is more tasty than poo flinging and projectile vomit, so I would still rather be human.
… but nobody flings the poo back at you. They will throw the mashed potatos back if you don’t get good coverage, though.:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Flying-Monkey;762755]This dumb sh!t is one reason why kung fu sucks.[/QUOTE]
Why are you on these forums?
[QUOTE=The Xia;762744]I heard it exists. I heard that the style imitates a fetus (if a fetus could walk). I heard it uses lots of elbows and short power. Anyone have any information on it? Anyone have any experiences with it? Videos?[/QUOTE]
What’s next? Are we going to have “Taking a crap” style?
You kinda move around like you have to crap feel bad. Then when you body unloads on your opponent you just kinda relax!
The creator of fetus style made a ‘choice’ - so they sprayed it with saline solution, stuck a fork in it’s head and sucked it out of the womb.
But it was a choice man, so don’t criticize.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;763021]
I am not saying that animal styles are ineffective - what I am saying is I don’t understand why they tried to pattern themselves after animals, thinking that it would make them more effective than had they remained fighting like humans.[/QUOTE]
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Were the moves patterned after the animal, or were the moves named for the animal whose fighting appproach they most resembled, as a mnemonic device? i.e., If you were to ascribe “human fighting moves” into a small group of animals that the moves were reminiscent of, would it take five animals to do so? Would it be easy to do it in fewer? Would they cease being human moves?
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How do humans fight? If we are to think of it in terms of instinctual fighting, children’s play fighting is the answer, and that is not the same as a developed form of ground fighting or stand up, but more an aggressive approach. If we include fighting methods developed over time, like many of the more common chokes, etc, then how do we not include animal methods as methods humans developed to fight, making them “fighting like humans”?
Obviously lots of grey areas in both points. There’s plenty of moves in animal boxing styles that are standard to many styles, western and non-western. A figure four, a fireman’s carry, and other common moves we’ve seen in snake boxing are an example, etc.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;763309]It’s shamanism, pure and simple. The reason to pattern yourself after an animal, or a drunk, or a fetus, is highly practical in a culture governed by superstition and folklore. This was the China of old (and to some degree, modern China, although they might be unlikely to admit it). In shamanism, you seek to gain power through the spirit world, and these often manifest with animals. It’s akin to voodoo, witch doctor stuff, obeah. However, in a culture that is based on this kind of belief system, it’s very powerful.
This taps into the whole ‘no touch knockout’ thing, something I touched upon in my Jul Aug 2002 article, No Touch Knockouts: Pressure Points and Qi Projection. It’s all about faith. If you are within a culture that has a lot of faith, evoking animals or other spiritual sources into your fighting style is very powerful. If everyone believes in no touch knockouts, then they work. In our current age of science, these things lose their combat practicality.
However, that doesn’t mean they lose their validity. Shamanism is a taproot of our tradition. To simply disregard it is to throw the baby (or the fetus) out with the bathwater. Intrinsic within these shamanistic beliefs are implicit morals. As we ‘scientifically’ disprove these superstitions within the martial arts, we must be careful not to become amoral in the process.[/QUOTE]
i read this book a while back called the holographic universe (michael talbot i think)
anywho, there is an entire section on divine intervention, miracles, and faith based deeds. he went over many documented cases through several cultures dealing with un explained faith based phenomenon. it was actually quite interesting. i think touches along the same lines as to why many of these things in dealing with martial arts that may be hard to believe happened or are simply unexplained. of course there was no ‘answer’ to these types of events in the book, other than the aspect that for each episode, miracle, intervention or what have you, the connection between them was that for each one, all of the people involved were very very very strong in their beliefs regarding what was at hand.
this type of pooled faith can be a very strong motivational property for what we may percieve is actually happening. as well as the the motivation to help conciously or subconsiously assist in the fabrication, the actual happening of the event, or recalling what may have happened.
the mind is a tricky place to navigate, even in todays world with our minute understanding of it…just imagine what kinds of things mind tricks could get away with when people were much more ignorant about the workings of the human psyche…
[QUOTE=KC Elbows;763419]1) Were the moves patterned after the animal, or were the moves named for the animal whose fighting appproach they most resembled, as a mnemonic device? i.e., If you were to ascribe “human fighting moves” into a small group of animals that the moves were reminiscent of, would it take five animals to do so? Would it be easy to do it in fewer? Would they cease being human moves?
- How do humans fight? If we are to think of it in terms of instinctual fighting, children’s play fighting is the answer, and that is not the same as a developed form of ground fighting or stand up, but more an aggressive approach. If we include fighting methods developed over time, like many of the more common chokes, etc, then how do we not include animal methods as methods humans developed to fight, making them “fighting like humans”?
Obviously lots of grey areas in both points. There’s plenty of moves in animal boxing styles that are standard to many styles, western and non-western. A figure four, a fireman’s carry, and other common moves we’ve seen in snake boxing are an example, etc.[/QUOTE]
that’s a very good point. I guess I am thinking more along the lines of claws, beaks, wings, etc. ape footwork, monkey footwork, etc.
by human fighting, the child’s play flailing and wrestling is exactly what it is. when it’s refined, it goes from haymakers, windmilling and headlocks to hooks, overhands and chokes. other than pinching, claw type motions aren’t instinctual, unless you count a slap as an unrefined claw.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;763643]that’s a very good point. I guess I am thinking more along the lines of claws, beaks, wings, etc. ape footwork, monkey footwork, etc.[/quote]
Aside from claws, I can agree with your point.
by human fighting, the child’s play flailing and wrestling is exactly what it is. when it’s refined, it goes from haymakers, windmilling and headlocks to hooks, overhands and chokes. other than pinching, claw type motions aren’t instinctual, unless you count a slap as an unrefined claw.
I would say clawing, like biting, IS instinctual, and something one teaches children out of the first time their tiny crazy hard nails draw blood. However, it might be a case where your family is more evolved than mine.
Aside from that, I largely agree with you, but there are claws and grabs I think are useful and refined, regardless of their source.
along those lines…
ive noticed attaching the term, “claw” or “wing” etc…will get some people to dismiss what your talking about right away. assuming that its “lame animal kungfu” when some times these techniques are totally legit and practical.