[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;956510]And you’d be wise to take that vagueness at face value, regardless of his motivations.
Because focusing on short power is just that: short. On practicality. Because you need to develop power in all kinds of strikes, whether they be short, medium, or long range. It’s not practical to think that short range power is all you’ll need.
For example, the one inch punch is nonsense. And throwing chain punches from just 6-8-10-12 inches away is also limited in what it will do for you. Throwing any kind of punch that never travels more than 12 inches or so will never cut it.
You want to be able to fight well?
Then you better develop power with all kinds and ranges of punches (and other strikes).[/QUOTE]
yeah i just used short power as an example so I agree there is more to fighting than short power.
Even if I ask about kicking/punching power technique I get no satisfactory answer and now feel maybe have to look at other arts to improve my fighting skills.
Also the fact that his senior students have all left is an indicator that he is holding back.
perhaps he carried them as far as he could. is he truly holding back, or is he holding you back? maybe he only has so much to offer.
I think Lucas has hit the nail on the head.
To be fair though, if you’ve been there eight years, it is not that unusual to have most of your seniors leave. Eight years is a big chunk of time in which life circumstances can change. Marriage, kids, moves, injuries, illness, changing interests, … some people don’t need to train that long to feel they’ve achieved what they wanted to achieve in an MA.
I’ve been with my instructor twenty years. None of my seniors train regularly any more and have not done so for years. Only a couple of other guys have passed 15 years and still train. In my experience it’s very rare to find people that have stuck with an instructor and still train actively for over a decade, even with the best instructors. I sometimes wonder why I keep going myself.
I took up BJJ after about ten years of WC. It gave me a second wind. Maybe taking up something new will work for you as well.
Wing chun is not for everyone specially when sustained and progressive good instruction is lacking.
Suggest you find the best instructor that you can find in some other art if you are still interested
in TCMA.
There are folks who are learning other arts specially when their progressive learning of wing chun is at a standstill.
I kick box and I feel like my kickboxing and Wing Chun fit together seamlessly. They supplement each other in some areas and complement each other in different areas. To be honest, either art would probably give you what you are missing from your instructor.
Hello,
I am new to this forum but have trained in Wing Chun and other arts for 30 years. IMHO if you have studied Wing Chun or any art for 8 years then you should be pretty good and have a base of knowledge and skills to carry you forward for a lifetime. Try teaching someone else (as you probably already do in class). You will see your art from a new perspective and hopefully come to know if better. However, there is nothing wrong with trying something new. Take what is useful. Good luck.
[QUOTE=IRONMONK;956506]the more finer details
for example every time i ask about short power he will give a vague explanation[/QUOTE]
Many “Secrets” and “Finer Details” can be revealed through ones self, through hard training, sparring and thought.
If your Sifu had these finer details, you should have been watching him, and by watching him you won’t need him to say anything, you can figure it out for yourself.
The days of wing chun instructors holding information back should be close to an end with MMA, DVDs and the internet but don’t give up hope on your wing hcun. Learning a different art like Eskrima or thai boxing can help your wing chun if you keep the wing chun principles.
If you are anywhere near Newcastle, give me a shout and come along to a class…I will answer every question I can and if I can’t I will point you in the right direction. If you are in Stockport, London or Southhampton check out WSL family Ving Tsun or look for one of Alan Orr’s guys.
After you have done all the learning (8 years should be about it) then all you have is training so you will find that you are not actually learning new forms, techniques etc. Your instructor and seniors can fine tune your technique and push you but your mind is the most important element.
These last three posts should really give you (and everyone) a good perspective on what advanced martial arts training is really about. You are frustrated because his explanantions seem “vague”. Keep in mind that many discoveries are made by experience and that one can often not explain how they got “it”. Do you remember when and how you learned to speak? Try as you must, you cannot “teach” certain things, but they are ingrained by experience, by watching and paying attention. It was a great suggestion that you teach someone else, you will be amazed how much comes out that you never realized you learned. Teaching also forces you to bring different ideas together. So you want to learn about “Short” power? Why not sit and figure out what does this mean to you? if you go through your forms, the muk jong, the weapons, do you see any areas even close to his “vague” explanations? There are so many answers in the Ving Tusn System that are non-apparent to those who feel it all must come from the Sifu. After 8 years, you should be working on the “inside” relationsihp with your Sifu and not just continuing to be some regular student paying tuition.
Some of your questions spark my interest. What are some of your specific questions. That you feel went unanswered. Asked them here on the Forum so we can all take a crack at it.
As for Short Power.
Was your question about…
What is short power?
How do you apply it?
How do you cultivate it?
Short power is simple. Short power simply means being able to strike with out drawing back your arm…
Most fighting styles utlize Short and Midrange power.
Western Boxing and Wing Chin uses short power and Midrange power.
Of course Boxing places more emphasis on mid range power and WC places more emphasis on short range.
Some styles also use long range power. Like Hung gar, Choy li Fut and Chang Quan.
The only difference is the directional force that is issued and angles it is relinquished.
I practice Muay Thai. You will love it. Give it a shot, see how you do.
BTW I’m shorter than you, about same weight. After 8 years you should be able to kick some ass at least.
Do yourself good justice and start training in a full-contact style where sparring and conditioning is a daily thing and where sweat and tears fly, and improvements happen every day, week, and month.
all chinese kung fu needs u to train your muscles and lift weights
every single one
there are good kung fu styles and there are bad kung fu styles
and there are sh1t kung fu styles
taking years to fight good is a lie. you shouldve been fighting good after the first year. your sifu milked u
After eight years in any art you will stagnate to a degree, because this is the fine tuning stage that goes on for the rest of you abled life…
Sifu’s holding back for money or being vauge because they just dont know is one thing.
But if you feel confident in sparring different styes with WC and have used it for self protection for real then it sounds like you’ve just begun to plateau which is a natural part of any training/learning.
Go find new friends to sparr with visit another school and touch hands etc etc
The reality of fighting is you should kmow the material fairly quick and then its just taking that material and drill drill drill train train train.
Youll get better at fighting but wont be learning anything new per sey.
The problem that you are attributing to WC is a problem that everyone experiences no matter the martial art. I think that instructors are partially to blame for their students failures
There are several problems that I see with martial arts instructors.
They lack the vocabulary to teach concepts, principles, and strategies because they were not taught to them explicitly but earned a tacit understanding through hours of sparring and training.
Many instructors just aren’t as articulate as they need to be to teach. Even if they do know they are unable to communicate ideas effectively.
Teaching martial arts requires a level of commitment that I am not sure that all instructors make. Teaching requires that you keep your own skills at an acceptable level to provide instruction for students. In addition, teaching requires a level of organization in order to properly present and refine the curriculum.
Finally, having said all of that. If you are looking to be spoon fed it ain’t gonna happen. I recommend that you take responsibility for your lack of ability. As they say “Free your mind and your a** will follow.” Begin reading, watching DVD’s, and exploring other arts as different instructors and/or arts often have different emphasis and present different pieces of the puzzle. AND, put the new ideas in to practice. I have only known a few people to commit themselves like this but the ones who have typically surpass their instructors in knowledge.
Lots of great advice given here…I like what was said about making WC your own and you certainly have to do that…the idea of looking to other people to see what they have to say and why they do…I am not ashamed to say that I have tested the knowledge of my own lineage with the knowledge of others…sometimes it is the same with different vocabulary and sometimes it is completely different and I just take what I think is useful for my purpose in learning Wing Chun. Somebody mentioned the teachers lack of skill to teach…I mean lets face it, there are some good fighters who are not teachers…recall Ip Man’s sifu Chan Wa Shun and his method of teaching vs the more elaborate and well versed instruction that he got from Leung Bik, his Si-Pak. I also like what was said about taking responsiblity for your own WC…this is so true!!! I personally enjoy Ip Ching’s expression of Wing Chun but I don’t hesitate to say that I might not employ certain techniques the way he does because I just don’t have the experience for them yet or have no need…I have learned from several of Ip Ching’s students and each of them has given me a different perspective on the art that is Wing Chun…
not sure what you are lacking or what you think you are missing…if its short power your want, you need to look to your Siu Lim Tao training and check your energy there…as it is, the short power is already being performed in your Siu Lim Tao…everything you need is in the forms…train train train!!! Do thousands of Cup Jarns, Shift shift shift, work the jong for hours at a time…YOU need to find these things! You can’t expect to be spoon fed all the time…then you’ll never make a good teacher yourself…
Set aside your forms and put away that giant Pinocchio. Find some sparring partners. You want progressive challenge? There it is. You’re only as good as your partners can push you. Push each other to get better and everyday is a constantly renewing challenge. You won’t ever get bored. Competent sparring partners make even the simplest combo something you look forward to working on.
Make your art your own. But that ain’t gonna happen through forms or with that big toothpick. I’m not gonna tell you to go take up MT or boxing or MMA. But seriously give it a shot at working some really resistant sparring sessions. You will find all the challenge you need to get that fire going again.
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;956947]Set aside your forms and put away that giant Pinocchio. Find some sparring partners. You want progressive challenge? There it is. You’re only as good as your partners can push you. Push each other to get better and everyday is a constantly renewing challenge. You won’t ever get bored. Competent sparring partners make even the simplest combo something you look forward to working on.
Make your art your own. But that ain’t gonna happen through forms or with that big toothpick. I’m not gonna tell you to go take up MT or boxing or MMA. But seriously give it a shot at working some really resistant sparring sessions. You will find all the challenge you need to get that fire going again.[/QUOTE]
When you are at home alone…An have no partners at that moment. Is okay to practice your forms then…Are do you believe that
Form Practice
Muk Yan Jong Practice
Punching and kicking the air
Are these things useless when you have no one to spar with?
In other words what do you do when your not sparring?
8 years training and now you’re fed up? What were you doing in those 8 years? I’m sorry but I’ve seen this before. The length of time you train in something is meaningless. It’s the quality of work that you do. I see a similar thing in gyms all the time. People who’ve been going to the gym for 10 or 15 years, go on the treadmill, do a few dumbbell curls, and go home, and then wonder why they’re not progressing. Then they tell their friends that they’re giving up because after 10 years of hard training, they’re not progressing. A bad sifu is no excuse. If he was really that bad, it shouldn’t have taken 8 years to figure that out. And a lot of major breakthroughs and learning come from things you learn outside the classroom. Sounds like you weren’t doing your homework. I know you might get ****ed off and think I’m being rude, but that’s exactly what it sounds like. If you were working hard, you should have been able to kick some ass after the first year or so. And if your sifu wasn’t doing any sparring after the first year or so, that should have been your cue to leave. Like I said, what were you doing during those 8 years?
One time i ordered Chinese food from this place, i ordered my favorite, peking duck, when i got it, i tried it and…yuck! worst f’n thing i ever had.
A few days later, i found another Chinese place and ordered peking duck, when i tried it, wow..it was amazing!
my point is this, just because you got a “bad taste” of wing chun from one instructor, doesn’t mean you should never order wing chun again. it’s not the restaurant that’s bad, it’s the cook.
so i would definitely give another wing chun instructor a try, but here’s one detail that i think you should look for, make sure that the instructor is also small framed in structure and not a big guy, why? because he has the same issues as you do, and can help you answer some of your questions as a result.
don’t give up!
also, take a look at my 70 or so videos on Chinese Boxing at http://thechinaboxer.com especially the videos related to wing chun, which might help you out. keep at it!
