Fajin

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1150727]For me, Sharing doesnt need no condition.[/QUOTE]
You only share when someone asks for it. Otherwise it’s just “showing off”.

The only problem is sometime people may treat your sharing as “have all of the answers and is unwilling to learn from others”. It’s not good to use your hot face to touch someone’s cold ass. :frowning:

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1150727]Didn’t you the one who post up the clip adam shu shows his baji Jin in solo?[/QUOTE]
It just because those “solo clips” can be found online, that’s why I asked for “application clip”. I would love to see any clip about Baji Jin applied on opponent’s body.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1150724]For me, solo or double , mechanics is mechanics. It is mechanics I am interested in.[/QUOTE]

Hendrik, if one is building a car, one needs to test drive it to make sure everything was built correctly. Push it to the limits and see if it works.

Same for Internal training; if one does not test it, how would one know he/she is not just fooling himself/herself?

My teacher in Beijing, at the age of 86, though weak still Fajin very well (though more in a controlled enviroment). My teacher in Guangzhou, though physically unhealthy, still can issue power during a fight very well. Even when one is old and weak, Fajin is Fajin.

[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1150729]Hendrik, if one is building a car, one needs to test drive it to make sure everything was built correctly. Push it to the limits and see if it works.

Same for Internal training; if one does not test it, how would one know he/she is not just fooling himself/herself?

My teacher in Beijing, at the age of 86, though weak still Fajin very well (though more in a controlled enviroment). My teacher in Guangzhou, though physically unhealthy, still can issue power during a fight very well. Even when one is old and weak, Fajin is Fajin.[/QUOTE]

You certainly missed my previous post
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1150707&postcount=15

What do you think about this Baji?

Baji Jin catch if u can

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22rnZ_t_ZaI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LuKKEL29Io&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-7XxvlU3c&feature=related

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1150728]You only share when someone asks for it. Otherwise it’s just “showing off”.

The only problem is sometime people may treat your sharing as “have all of the answers and is unwilling to learn from others”. It’s not good to use your hot face to touch someone’s cold ass. :frowning:

It just because those “solo clips” can be found online, that’s why I asked for “application clip”. I would love to see any clip about Baji Jin applied on opponent’s body.[/QUOTE]

Those clips are much more fun to watch.

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1150735]Those clips are much more fun to watch.[/QUOTE]

what do you think about them?

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1150752]what do you think about them?[/QUOTE]

I think the “bajiquan fighter” clip is not real fight but demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-7XxvlU3c&feature=related

Haha, couple of old old old clips of me doing Tai Chi, “Fajin” types of things. I had thicker hair and smaller gut (gut filled with beer, not Qi.) Done as a demo, not as a fight.

A quick Fajin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfIxiMalDNU&feature=related

A long winded explaination (dozing off…)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8LpTbVNcxY&feature=related

Less long winded, on sticking and controlling, dealing with the opponent’s power source and moving the mind (Yi) through the opponent’s arm/body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg&feature=related

Cheers,
John

[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1150768]Haha, couple of old old old clips of me doing Tai Chi, “Fajin” types of things. I had thicker hair and smaller gut (gut filled with beer, not Qi.) Done as a demo, not as a fight.

A quick Fajin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfIxiMalDNU&feature=related

A long winded explaination (dozing off…)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8LpTbVNcxY&feature=related

Less long winded, on sticking and controlling, dealing with the opponent’s power source and moving the mind (Yi) through the opponent’s arm/body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg&feature=related

Cheers,
John[/QUOTE]

That’s what I mean by you don’t need force to Fajin (not saying that in a real fight you don’t want force), and that “Internal” Kung Fu is not just about internal alignment and generation of force/power, but also on how to cover your opponent with Yi.

I see the Tai Chi I did as theoretical background; and the Kulo as practical expression.

[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1150769]I see the Tai Chi I did as theoretical background; and the Kulo as practical expression.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, but concerning too.

Still, nobody here has posted the original two chinese characters for Fajin which for me is a MASSIVE concern.

And all the clips here are from Baji/Bagua Kuen and have little to do with what energies Wing Chun practitioners use and train. They’re good clips don’t get me wrong, and I loved the two man set, but our two man sets are so so different imho…

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1150780]Still, nobody here has posted the original two chinese characters for Fajin which for me is a MASSIVE concern.[/QUOTE]

= Fajin (Mandarin)

And from my understanding, this ‘strength’ isn’t even an internal study. It’s an instant release of muscular strength. Something that happens with no ‘build up’. A ‘reflex’ if you like. The character jin/ging itself gives it away and this is what I was waiting to see.

So, thanks Hendrik for sharing (finally!!)

[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1150769]That’s what I mean by you don’t need force to Fajin (not saying that in a real fight you don’t want force), and that “Internal” Kung Fu is not just about internal alignment and generation of force/power, but also on how to cover your opponent with Yi.

I see the Tai Chi I did as theoretical background; and the Kulo as practical expression.[/QUOTE]

Thanks and appreciate for your full hearted very educational sharing.

Great explation!

Only if you interested,

In my terminology,
On above, This class of fajin is what I called force vector balancing . Depending on the player, it might be 2, 4, or 6 d.

For me, the common term As 'cover the opponent with yi ’ or nim lik does not tell the full story. In fact, it Actually is misleading because yi alone cannot do mechanical work. Work as the work in physics class. So what it is is one needs to train until the intention or yi (synchronize with the physical body without have to think ) can call for different physical structure alignment using the opponent’s force vector as a feedback. It is still internal alignment and power generation because there is physical work needs to be done in a physical world. However, it is an act of balancing instead of projection in expression.

If you see taiji as theory and kulo as the practical expression, then what is your engine type? Since Kulo and taiji has different dynamic structure type. For me, I could be wrong, my finding from you clips is your engine is kulo, you are using taiji balancing technics in your kulo. And occasionally use yang taichi big frame structure. This is what I mean by interesting in mechanics. Certainly one needs to test and development, however, to know the mechanics knows the boundary limits. As it says, one design a good product via a good mechanics design, not via testing it. Because no matter how one test an iron rod cannot make it a steel rod. Sure, testing is needed to make sure the quality of the iron rod.

[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1150768]

Less long winded, on sticking and controlling, dealing with the opponent’s power source and moving the mind (Yi) through the opponent’s arm/body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg&feature=related
[/QUOTE]

John,

Great very educational full hearted sharing clip.

Only if you are interested,

For me, just my opinion, the above case cover most of the case.
I found when facing a develop internal artist the paradigm shifted and new phenomenon surfaces.

My reason are
1.because with the 6 d mechanics, the resultant force is no longer from one source. Thus make the source difficult to track. And it is a competition of how much 6 d coverage one has. It becomes a game of dynamic structure flow.
2. When the lower part of the body developed , meaning the qi open up the waist down to toes. Or reach the 3rd state of development equivalent which Chen man ching propose, the force vector handling in the body no longer the same .

What do you think?

This is real for me

http://www.tidewatertaichi.com/FAQ.html

As it says


Human Level
First Degree: Relax the tendons and ligaments from the shoulders to the tip of the middle finger.
Second Degree: Relax the tendons and ligaments from the hip joints to the bubbling well.
Third Degree: Relax the tendons and ligaments from the tail bone to the top of the head.

Earth Level
First Degree: Sink the qi to the dantien.
Second Degree: Use the mind to move the qi from the dantien through the arms and legs to the fingertips and bubbling well.
Third Degree: Use the mind to move the qi from the tailbone (weilu) to the top of the head (niwan).

((Hendrik’s. Note: my view on the earth level is, one doesn’t have to use the mind to move the qi. When qi is full it fill up and. Blockage remove, qi will circulate by itself naturally. It is like when the reservoir is full and the sue system is unblock, water flow by itself. Thus, at this level one needs to attain the natural flow instead of using mind to move qi . Qi will circulate by itself and one must not disturbed the qi flow. That is dao mimic the nature. ))

Heaven Level
First Degree: Listen to the energy and strength (ting jin) of another.
Second Degree: Understand the energy and strength (dong jin) of another.
Third Degree: Omnipotence Level. The mind (yi) relies on the spirit (jing shen) not the qi to mobilize the body. Rely on spiritual power and divine speed rather than qi to move the body and maintain the taiji point of balance and harmony with others.


In the reality, most tcma practioner never fully develop human level second degree. Majority never get to the second degree of earth level. Thus, no matter How one test one’s Jin, one can never go past one’s boundary limit of capability. It is like a weak battery will not run the cell phone long. The way one uses one’s body in normal person, human second degree, earth second degree different distinctively.

Those who has the higher degree and level attain will know the signatual or where to look for what other likely to be in.

As for true Jin development , it is at heaven level. According to gm Chen man Ching.

Hendriks note: in reality, things are not these clear cut, ie, one can learn listen to Jin even at human level but that level of listen is very clumsy.

So, in internal art standard, the Kung for Jin development is specific and clear. Thus, one knows no matter how one test the applications one needs to develop the level of Kung in solo first. That is the key of development.

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1150756]I think the “bajiquan fighter” clip is not real fight but demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-7XxvlU3c&feature=related[/QUOTE]

ooh well heres a real Baji fight demo!!!

ha ha…

hey its u and me on this clip hooray!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfJoBWU1SSQ&feature=related

Hendrik,

You are a great intellect, but you can’t learn to ride a bike just by reading a book.

When Yi takes over body, you will realize all these different “engines” are free to use, and there is little distinction between styles, just different focus and emphasis.

My advice would be to focus more on Yi, and let the body look after itself.

If we ever meet up, I’ll let you feel what’s going on.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1150724]For me, solo or double , mechanics is mechanics. It is mechanics I am interested in.[/QUOTE]
Hendrik:

Just for my personal curiosity, why do you have so much interest in “mechanics” if you don’t care much about application? What’s good about Fajin, if you don’t care about sending it into your opponent’s body? MA is 2 persons art. It’s not solo. If you only care about solo, there are many things that you can do besides TCMA. If you only care about “health” and “self-cultivation” then why do you care about Fajin at all? In other words, why do you want to learn Chinese sword if you don’t care about to use your sword to kill your enemy?

[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1150830]Hendrik,

You are a great intellect, but you can’t learn to ride a bike just by reading a book.

When Yi takes over body, you will realize all these different “engines” are free to use, and there is little distinction between styles, just different focus and emphasis.

My advice would be to focus more on Yi, and let the body look after itself.

If we ever meet up, I’ll let you feel what’s going on.[/QUOTE]

John,

I disagree.

A Yi chuan practitioner will not do the same with a yang tai chi,
a yang tai chi is not using the body and mind as Chen taiji.
A Xing yi will use the body different with white crane of fujian.
An emei 12 zhuang guy with snake engine will not move the same with a bagua person.

All of these people use yi And develop with yi but the engine is different.

Take a classical case, the shaolin Lin yi Jin jing start it’s training via activate the lung medirians. The emei 12 zhuang starts with the liver medirians activation. The taichi starts with both three yin and yang medirians . These all are good, using yi , but they produce different results.
It is an body mind evolution development, how the body mind is condition will decide what type of outcome after the evolution or transformation.

Even the yang taichi long Jin and Chen reel silk Jin are different stuffs as we know.

Not to mention, to cultivate yi, one needs to store Shen. Without Shen, the yi is dull.

So, it is not book reading but ancient Chinese technology. It is called the dharma door different art has different dharma door they cultivate and develop different results. Take a look even Chen man Ching style is different compare to other yang style.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1150834]So, it is not book reading but ancient Chinese technology. It is called the dharma door different art has different dharma door they cultivate and develop different results. Take a look even Chen man Ching style is different compare to other yang style.[/QUOTE]

Different “dharma doors” open into the same house.

Different Martial Art styles describe different parts of the same elephant.

I don’t just look for differences in styles; I look for the universal message behind the differences.

[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1150839]Different “dharma doors” open into the same house.

Different Martial Art styles describe different parts of the same elephant.

I don’t just look for differences in styles; I look for the universal message behind the differences.[/QUOTE]

I certainly accept your view.