I’m bored so here is Erle Montigue doing Fa Jing.
http://www.taijiworld.com/download/67.wmv
Flame away or am I beating a dead zombie horse?
Greetings..
Has anyone counted the number of times Earl brushes his hair out of his eyes?.. it seems that every movement requires that he attend to his vision.. a poor example of a Martial Artist, unprepared for a real conflict..
I would like to see how those punches affect a heavy-bag.. little if any observable Dantien involvement..
Be well..
“little if any observable Dantien involvement”
Not saying anything regarding Erle, just this statement.
Large dantien movements are only the beginning…eventually (mastery) the movements are not “observable” by looking at them and to all appearance is nature movement.
Although I tend to use “observable dantient involvement” as a basis of good internal strength too, I must also always remind myself that to really know I will have to lay a hand on them to feel what is going on.
hhmmmm
Do you think it’s mandatory for them all to dress like 70’s Californian beach bums too?
Erle in that clip…
“Thats what we are trying to do, we are trying to be a madman for that split second.”
I have this odd feeling he is a mad man 24 hours a day seven days a week all year round.
Still i have to admit his ability to slip the word ‘fa-ging’ into every sentence at least several times did show some real darn talent 
I also really dont like the way he jumps off the ground when he excecutes.
Still never met him so for all i know he could be amazing, im betting on the negative though.
TC Bob " Has anyone counted the number of times Earl brushes his hair out of his eyes?.. it seems that every movement requires that he attend to his vision.. a poor example of a Martial Artist, unprepared for a real conflict.."
Ahhh… he is not really brushing his hair out of his face, only lowly mortals will think such rubbish, its actually a secret chi development kata, which enables astral travel, and killing far off enemies by the disintegration of colon poo posions in erles gut, that re mainfest themselves in the enemies cuppa soup, the deadly art of shi.te-chi-chuan. :eek:
Internal Boxer
Greetings..
LOL… I supposed the hair was used to train his hands to cover his face during combat.. Grooming, particularly matters that affect performance, are part of the “warriors” Art.. to maintain one’s self such that unkempt hair compromises clarity and performance diminishes the appearance of “warrior” status..
Regarding Dantien involvement.. even at very high levels, the use of the Dantien is evident in the quality of movement.. to break one’s root (jumping) suggests a misconception of connectivity..
But, as most others have said, i would have to cross hands with him form an opinion as to the quality of his Art..
Be well..
Re: Internal Boxer
Originally posted by TaiChiBob
[B]Greetings..
Grooming, particularly matters that affect performance, are part of the “warriors” Art.. to maintain one’s self such that unkempt hair compromises clarity and performance diminishes the appearance of “warrior” status..
But, as most others have said, i would have to cross hands with him form an opinion as to the quality of his Art..
Be well.. [/B]
Hmm. yet wasn’t Musashi noted for his unkempt and generally un-Samurai-like appearance?
Met Erle a few years ago. Generally a nice guy though I think he has painted himself into a corner. As for wether what he does is “real” taiji - well that only seems to be Chen style these days
cheers
http://www.yellowdragon-kung-fu.co.uk/
Go to the southern mantis section, page 2. They talk about kin tan ging(gen tan genk)
Me personally i like his ideas torwards that form of explosive power. It sounds simmilar to Bak mei’s scared power. To go forward instead of retreat when your scared. The same power that you use to explosively retract when something almost burned you. Through touch sensitivity you learn to strike with that same same explosiveness. Like reprograming your nervous system. I think thats the most powerful ging. You learn to control the subconcious.
The only problem i have is he calls everything fa ging. I wouldnt call what he’s doing fa ging perse. Its explosive but its a different type of ging.
Very external.
Unbalanced - watch the swing of his hind leg.
Never judge a book by its cover. He appears to be able to hit hard, and if he hit you with one of those most people would have no idea what even happened. Its up to him to decide if he can get better and how to do so, but he definately appears to be generating power regardless. MA is just like music..everyone wants to label it, but really its just what it is, and what some people think is good others think is terrible, etc.
Just my $.02
this isn’t tai chi…its jeet kun do. He jumped and punched…his waist was moving correctly.
I have talked to Erle a few times via email. He is a really nice guy, and knows a great deal about Tai Chi and other Chinese Martial Arts. I really respect his knowledge.
I’ve been practicing both Japanese and Chinese Martial Arts for 25 years now, and from what I have talked to him about and read his articles, he knows his stuff.
Erle is not “jumping” off the ground; he’s putting all of his power thru his arm and fist.
If you can do this, then you know naturally that your feet would tend to come off of the ground. It seems like he is just jumping, but he’s not.
It’s really hard to find a Sifu out there that actually knows how to apply the Martial Art
Applications of Tai Chi Chuan and not just “do the form”
Erle’s one of them.
Happy –Sifu
shaolin68@angelfire.com
“If you can do this, then you know naturally that your feet would tend to come off of the ground. It seems like he is just jumping, but he’s not.”
Yes that’s just what a good TC player want’s to do, lose his root.
“If you can do this, then you know naturally that your feet would tend to come off of the ground”
That’s wack.
"It’s really hard to find a Sifu out there that actually knows how to apply the Martial Art
Applications of Tai Chi Chuan and not just “do the form”
Erle’s one of them. "
Yes and he’s so adept at the martial applications that
he uproots himself, saving his opponent the trouble and effort.
My, how clever!
Somebody kill this thread. Beating the old hippie with a stick is
well… getting old.
I’m not saying the guy doesn’t know how to puch with decent strength. But if you have seen someone who can do proper fajing, you wouldn’t call that fajing. Obviously, you haven’t so this is moot but trust me on this. If “it seems like he is just jumping”, he is not doing fajing. In broadsword clip, when he kick and slap his hand from top of it, he jump up. Another example of incorrect performance of form even by the standard of demonstration wushu.
As many people stated, EM is ex pro wrestler and he seems to have put decent amount of effort in MA. So, of course, he can explian few thing to the extent of his experience. If you are decent 3rd degree karate black belt, it is possible for you to give interpretation of taijiquan classics according to your expertise on karate. Plus if you have 3rd degree in black belt, it is not difficult to remain superior fighter to any of your taijiquan students. But just because someone can explain thing doesn’t mean such explanation is correct to the full extent of what classics meant.
And many people seems to have favourable impression of EM especially him being very helpful. But this has nothing to do with his martial capability. If such was the case, Ghandi would have been able to kick arse of Mike Tyson.
I’ve seen several versions of fa-jing, from EM through to Chen Xiao Wang via ba ji, hsing i, the yang style people and others.
To me EM’s method seems closer to the Kuntao guys - or at least Rick Hernandez. It also seems to have elements of Chu King Hung’s “open and close” body movement. The waist shaking I don’t recall seeing in other methods, nor the feet leaving the ground.
Having said that in many ways, whether it is “true” fai jing or not, I think at least EM has made an attempt to present something practical. I found elements of it interesting when I was practicing taiji, but not enough to “sign up” wholesale - though I’d say the same of the other styles too.
BAI HE:
Yes and he’s so adept at the martial applications that he uproots himself, saving his opponent the trouble and effort. My, how clever!
You really don’t need your “root” if your opponent is knocked out.
I could show you this, if it makes you happier. Are you near Kenmore Square?
O.K. let me try to explain why one shouldn’t even have appearence of jumping.
In taijiquan form, punch are done in following manner. You make forward step, in this case, with your left leg. You turn your hip and punch with right hand. Not that you ever punch like that in real fight. Once you understand the principles, you are going to punch like boxer. Just that exagerated movement of taijiquan make it easy for body to differentiate and recognize the process of punch. As one gain understaing of the principle, you make the step smaller and movement faster.
In punch, your right back leg will generate majority of momentum. As the right leg strech out to initiate punch, your front leg have to be relaxed, otherwise your hip will not turn which prevent the force of back leg to be transfered to turning of hip and torso.
On the other hand, at the moment of impact, it is your left front leg which provide stability from recoil of impact. As the force of back right leg is transfered to hip, upper body, right shoulder and eventually to right hand to the moment of impact, your right leg have to start to relax. If your back leg is not relaxed at this moment, you are tipping yourself forward (or in case of small stance, jumping upward) hence loosing your root. If your punch miss you are exposed to be pulled in or tip forward because your backleg is tipping yourself forward. If you are standing upright like EM, you are open to take down.
Furthermore, if your right leg is tence, the line of force of recoil in term of structure is from your right hand to right leg in straight line. At the moment of impact, this line is varunable to break and the force of recoil will escape to left side of your body and will not properly sink into front left leg. This will prevent the force of punch to be properly transfered to the target. It is like droping a ball made with glass. Because it will shatter at the moment of impact, only part of the mass would become the source of impact.
Therefore, it is the relaxation which is essential to the proper taijiquan punch. If you read the classic, it says the power come from your leg “controled by waist”. On the other hand, EM appear to whip his waist to generate punch. He also make very karate like kiai, “HAAAA” when he puch which is an indication that he tense up at the moment of punch which is very external approach to punch. He doesn’t seem to know how to relax his leg or hip nor how to differentiate the relaxation between his substantial and insubstantial leg from right to left or left to right which is the reason why he appear to jump when he punch.
Well, that my £0.02.