Earth Dragon's 12 Keywords

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
1

Hi Earth Dragon and All,

First and foremost I would like to thank you for sharing your material. I am intrigued by your post on the other thread about your teachings. I see this 12 keywords as oppose to the other well known version of 12 from the 8 Steps.

Here are a few notes and terms from my teachings… the 12 CHARACTERS

  1. ZHAN - ( CONTACTING ) MEETING OPPONENTS FORCE
  2. NIAN - ( STICKING ) MOVING WITH OPPONENTS MOVEMENTS
  3. BANG - ( LINKING ) KENTIC ENERGY
  4. TIE - ( PRESSING ) WARDING OFF OPPONENTS FORCE
  5. LAI - ( INTRUDING ) MOVING INTO OPPONENTS SPACE
  6. JIAO - ( PROVOKING ) SETTING UP OPPONENT
  7. SHUN - ( MOVING ALONG ) SLIDING WITH OPPONENTS FORCE
  8. SONG - ( SENDING ) PUSHING OFF OPPONENT
  9. TI - ( LIFTING ) LIFTING OPPONENTS LIMBS OR TORSO
  10. NA - ( GRABBING ) GRABBING OPPONENTS LIMBS
  11. FENG - ( BLOCKING ) BLOCKING OPPONENTS STRIKES
  12. BI - (LOCKING ) LOCKING OPPONENTS LIMBS

I have some questions such as:

I am curious as to these seem to be the exact 12 of the Meihwa/Taiji tradition?

Some keywords seems to be the literal translation (ie lai, Ti and Na) of the word and some seems to be consistant with the Meihwa/Taiji tradition at least in English at all (ie Bang, Tie, Feng, and Bi)?

Do you use specific drills to explain these keywords or do you use forms or techniques found in forms to illustrate these?

If so would you care to elaborate?

I am also wonder how you would rate the importance of the 12 keywords in your teaching of your style of mantis?

I do understand that sometimes different teacher would settle on different sets of keywords according to their understanding at various stage. I am just curious about your take on your 12 keywords that you posted.

Thanks for sharing. :slight_smile:

Warm rergards

Mantis108

PS I would share my 12 if there is an interest.

2

Hi Robert, hope all is well

the reason I posted them was FOR the difference. I have seen other variations of the 12 and thought I would share and compare.

I am curious as to these seem to be the exact 12 of the Meihwa/Taiji tradition?

not sure… these were taught to me many years ago and have never questioned them, thought all along they were strickly 8 step from master Wei.

Some keywords seems to be the literal translation (ie lai, Ti and Na) of the word and some seems to be consistant with the Meihwa/Taiji tradition at least in English at all (ie Bang, Tie, Feng, and Bi)?

My chinese is not fluent in any way but perhaps my spelling and translation or a little off? my teacher speaks very broken english and teaches moslty in chinese, for years now I am still translating my phonetics, I had bungtiao spelled bong-tee-yow LOL
[B]
Do you use specific drills to explain these keywords or do you use forms or techniques found in forms to illustrate these? we use actual application to undersatand the essence of the 12

If so would you care to elaborate?[/B]

when perfroming applications i will stop the techniques and explain to my students what action i am using as many times they cannot see jing, bang and nian. so i feel it is important to pull the energy or motion out for them to see

I am also wonder how you would rate the importance of the 12 keywords in your teaching of your style of mantis?
I do understand that sometimes different teacher would settle on different sets of keywords according to their understanding at various stage. I am just curious about your take on your 12 keywords that you posted.

again its the essence of your application. I feel 1 of those principles are used in every combat situation.

hope this helps, please share yours for us, thanks be well

Thanks for sharing.

Warm rergards

Mantis108

PS I would share my 12 if there is an interest.

3

Hi Earth Dragon,

Thanks for the clarifications. I am sharing my take on the keywords as followed:

For the 12 Characters in Mantis, there are a few different versions. The one that I personally advocate is from the Taiji/Meihwa lineages. Right now, we are using Mandarin pinying mostly. Because of the popularity and the fact that Hong Kong has been returned to China rule. I will try to do it this way, first I will give the Mandarin, then the definations and last the cantonese pinying (it might be off though). Hope that would work.

Zhan - adhere - Jim
Nian - stick - lim
Bang - Helping - Bong
Tie - Paste - tip
Lai - incoming - Loy
Jiao - calling - Giew
Shun - smoothly follow - Shuen
Song - escorting out - Song
Ti - raising - Tigh
Na - seize - La
Feng - seal - Fung
Bi - close - Baigh

They can be paired as Zhan Nian which basically is as the contact is made you adhere to the structure of the opponent via his limbs and then stick (listening closely and physically) to his movements. Bang Tie is then used depending on whether the opponent wanting to disengage (use Bang here) or press (use Tie here) the action.

Then there is Shen Fa (body method) which can be summed up as 4 words

Shan - dodge - Sim
Zhaun - deceive (ie turning) - chuan
Teng - leap - Tung
Nuo - shift - law

This could be summed up by Shan which is similar to Weng Chun’s Lau (leaking).

Instead of using forms, my keywords are explained with drills, where footwork will be introduced as well. As such, the keyword definitations are often not literal.

Personally, I use the Taiji/Meihua version plus Shan Zhuan Tang Nuo. I used that for at least 2 particular reasons:

  1. I can apply 6 and half point concept (CCK TCPM’s encounter with Yongchun system).
  2. I can readily explain Tanglang ground grappling (my personal exposure to both CCK TCPM and BJJ).

I also believe that when you are examining the 12 keywords of Tanglang, you are in fact looking at the system in depth not in width (not saying that’s not important). With that you could really go a long distance.

Warm regards

Mantis108

4

interesting. So you would say that the 12 I posted are closer to Meihwa than ba bu?
Obviously they are used in conjunction with the 8 short and 8 long steps and flow effortlessly with one another. also the same principles apply when doing taiji, peng, lui, ji an
very similar also with chi sao and twuei sao applications.

when do you incorporate jing? do you use all forms of it? as sticking and ahereing go?

do you redirect more than follow?

Perhaps other 8 steppers could give some input or differences.

5

robert just wondering if your style/ practice applies things similar to our 14 hand techniques tnbaks in advance

1.HOLDING ( NA ) – GRABING THE WRIST
2.WRAP ( TAN ) – SMALL WRAP LOCK
3.SHOULDER ( BEI ) – CIRCLE UNDER SHOULDER
4.ELBOW ( YA ) – ELBOW CONTROL WITH ELBOW
5.OUTSIDE TO INSIDE ( JUAN ) –GRAB WRIST TURN OUTSIDE TO INSIDE
6.BENDING ( BA ) – COME ALONG BEND
7.TURNING ( KUAN ) – OPPOSITE OF #5 INSIDE TO OUTSIDE
8.LOCK ( SHOU ) – LOCK BENT ARM BEHIND BACK
9.DIVIDE ( FEN ) – SPLIT FINGERS
10. PUSH ( TWAI ) – PUSH CHIN UPWARDS
11. LEVER ( POU ) – LOCK ELBOW UP
12. KICK ( DUNG ) – SIDE OF KNEE
13. PRESSURE ( DIAN ) – PRESSURE POINTS
14. GRAB ( KO ) – HAWK , EAGLE OR GRAB

6

Jing

Hi Earth Dragon,

I would say it’s pretty much the Taiji/Meihwa in your post. Your interpretation of it is somewhat different though. It may have your teacher’s understanding mixed in there as well. If you get this directly from him, it can only be verified by him.

Obviously they are used in conjunction with the 8 short and 8 long steps and flow effortlessly with one another. also the same principles apply when doing taiji, peng, lui, ji an
very similar also with chi sao and twuei sao applications.

I see, thanks for the info. Although we do push hands, it is seperate from Praying Mantis drills for most of the time. Tanglangquan IMHO is after all Tanglangquan and its uniqueness should be experienced by the students.

when do you incorporate jing? do you use all forms of it? as sticking and ahereing go?

Tanglang and Taiji are different entities. Taiji may want to have the student to develop all forms of Jing (Cheng Men Ching has identified quite a few of them). Tanglang, however, is a different story. It basically is “Ying Beng Shi Dao, Kou Shou Fan Che.” (whole body power and windlass like power). Zhan Nian (adhere and stick) to me are not meant to be push hand type of exercises. It’s only a phase of the engagement.

do you redirect more than follow?

That depends on the situation. It’s not always one way. That’s why there are 12 keywords as a guideline.

Perhaps other 8 steppers could give some input or differences.

Yeah, I would like to invite others across the Mantis community to chime in as well.

Warm regards

Mantis108

7

Sau Fa/Shou Fa

Hi Earth Dragon,

Looks like you are taking about Chin Na type of Shou Fa. Yes, I would think it’s similar but we use a move instead of single word to identify the technique. Also there will be different counters.

<<<1.HOLDING ( NA ) – GRABING THE WRIST
2.WRAP ( TAN ) – SMALL WRAP LOCK>>>

These can be group under Xiao Chan Si Shou or Jin Si Chan Wan. There are various counter to these.

<<<3.SHOULDER ( BEI ) – CIRCLE UNDER SHOULDER>>>

We call this old monk shouldering the scriptures. It leads to a takedown.

<<<4.ELBOW ( YA ) – ELBOW CONTROL WITH ELBOW>>>

Ya (press) in our style can be done with either elbow or knee as in armbaring. So..

<<<5.OUTSIDE TO INSIDE ( JUAN ) –GRAB WRIST TURN OUTSIDE TO INSIDE>>>

We have this form of wrist lock and takedown.

<<<6.BENDING ( BA ) – COME ALONG BEND>>>

I think we do this as a variation of elbow bent kind of like the MMA Omplata. We called this General Zhang Ties the Pig.

<<<7.TURNING ( KUAN ) – OPPOSITE OF #5 INSIDE TO OUTSIDE>>>

I think you would apply pressure on the fingers as well as locking his elbow in doing this right?

<<<8.LOCK ( SHOU ) – LOCK BENT ARM BEHIND BACK>>>

Yes, we do that as well.

<<<9.DIVIDE ( FEN ) – SPLIT FINGERS>>>

We have a pretty interesting finger/wrist lock that is called “Invite guest with a hand shake.”

<<<10. PUSH ( TWAI ) – PUSH CHIN UPWARDS>>>

We calle this Python swallows elephane.

<<<11. LEVER ( POU ) – LOCK ELBOW UP>>>

Shuang Zi (immortal) plays the flute.

<<<12. KICK ( DUNG ) – SIDE OF KNEE>>>

lots of this one as a strike, block, takedown or a lock.

<<<13. PRESSURE ( DIAN ) – PRESSURE POINTS>>>

also lots of this one. White crane swallow sword is my favorite.

<<<14. GRAB ( KO ) – HAWK , EAGLE OR GRAB[/QUOTE]>>>

Many.. I think I have shared clip of a sequence called Golden Dragon present claw that has a grab to the pressure point near the collar bone and to the low rid cage.

Thank for sharing your 14 techniques. It’s been fun. :slight_smile:

Warm regards

Robert

8

.
[B][B]
[B]<<<3.SHOULDER ( BEI ) CIRCLE UNDER SHOULDER>>>

We call this old monk shouldering the scriptures. It leads to a takedown.

yes we call it eagle swoops behind

<<<6.BENDING ( BA ) COME ALONG BEND>>>

I think we do this as a variation of elbow bent kind of like the MMA Omplata. We called this General Zhang Ties the Pig.

interesting we have Cheng ties the pig but it is used on the ground with th4e legs to be tied

<<<9.DIVIDE ( FEN ) SPLIT FINGERS>>>

We have a pretty interesting finger/wrist lock that is called “Invite guest with a hand shake.”

we cal it divide the continents where you actually tear the skin and ligaments between the middle fingers,… scarry

<<<13. PRESSURE ( DIAN ) PRESSURE POINTS>>>

also lots of this one. White crane swallow sword is my favorite.

please explain this one, thanks[/B][/B]

9

Hey guys, how important are these 12 principles to the development of a mantis student? At what point do you begin to reveal these characteristics of the techniques? As soon as the technique is taught to the student or after he has a certain level of mastery over the technique?
How do you go about explaining these to the students? Do you give the student the 12 principles and then let them decide which techniques belong to which principle on their own? Do you have certain drills that incorporate the practicing of techniques that all utilize a single (or several) common principles?
Unfortunately my old Kung fu teacher did not teach these (to me at least), let alone mention them, so I was left to my own devices to find out that they even exist. I also have read of 8 hard and 8 soft, and some other types of principles relating to mantis. Do you guys teach these?

10

Hi PaKua,

Sorry about the late reply. I was hoping to hear others’ view about the matter as well. But I guess not a lot of interest in this. Anyway, here’s my take:

Hey guys, how important are these 12 principles to the development of a mantis student?

Different teacher might have different view on this. I would say though that having an thorough understand of the keywords of your line WILL no doubt help you master your style of mantis. So do pay attention to them.

At what point do you begin to reveal these characteristics of the techniques?

That depends on the student because a novice to Kung Fu or just MA in general will not be able to grasp on the concepts readily. I have novice students and I have student who have MA experiences (ie Karate, Wrestling, Boxing, TKD, etc). In that case, I explain to them on day one.

As soon as the technique is taught to the student or after he has a certain level of mastery over the technique?[/uqote]

We are drill based so we use drills that are based on the keywords to get the concepts across. This is done on day one. (ie hook grab pluck drill).

[quote]How do you go about explaining these to the students?

First through drill then forms.

Do you give the student the 12 principles and then let them decide which techniques belong to which principle on their own?

By doing the drills they would understand the concept and be able to apply the keywords. As a matter of fact, to say they are concepts is a bit off. They are more like percepts because they are acquired through aliveness drills that has timing, motion, and energy.

Do you have certain drills that incorporate the practicing of techniques that all utilize a single (or several) common principles?

Yes, there are plenty of drills to do these. One of my favorite is called Feng Shou (sealing hands).

Unfortunately my old Kung fu teacher did not teach these (to me at least), let alone mention them, so I was left to my own devices to find out that they even exist. I also have read of 8 hard and 8 soft, and some other types of principles relating to mantis. Do you guys teach these?

Well, I don’t think you are alone on this. Many have gone through the same “ordeal”. In the west (actually even in the east these days), there are few people who have access to old boxing manuscripts. Some have access to them but they don’t really know what to do with them. The main bulk of Mantis theory came from a manuscript that is titled “Shaolin Authentics” which is a version of another manuscript known as “Arhat exercises merit Short Strikes.” The synopsis of the Arhat Short Strikes is where 8 strikes and 8 forbiden strikes, and 8 hard 12 soft (there are more) all came from.

If you show keen interset in learning this and get to the inner core of Mantis, I think your teacher would be happy and please to show you providing you work very hard for that.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Mantis108

11

Mantis108

I don’t think I could have gotten better answers for my questions, thank you.

12

12 key words

Hi I’m new here but I found the topic interesting here is my key words: (OU) - (HOOK) (LAU) - (GRAPPLE) (TSAI) - (PLUCK) (GWA) - (UPWARD BLOCK) (TIAO) - (INTERCEPT) (TIEP) - (SPEAR FORWARD) (PEK) - (CHOPPING PUNCH) (DA) - (HACK) (CHIN) - (CONTACT) (NOH) - (CLING) (TEIH) - (TAG) (KAO) - (LEAN) When Wong Long observed the praying mantis. He broke down it down to 12 main fighting principals. Now the monks that studied with Wong Long all thought they new the best way to use the mantis skills. So he told them all to catch a mantis and observe it giving birth to many different sub styles. Plus we can’t forget the people that mixed the mantis with their own family style. That might explain why some of the key principals may be different. I feel that the 12 key principals are very important to the system. They are the core or the of the style among other things. All of the styles of mantis kung fu are different but they are more alike than people might think. We are all different but in the end we are all human. Signed Nobby

13

Greetings Mantis053,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your keywords.

To All,

I found this Chinese text on the 12 keywords from couple of the Mainland Mantis broads.

Here’s a rough translation:

Praying Mantis Pugilistic Method General Analysis

(Zhan Nian Tie Kao, Gou Lou Cai Qua, Diao Jin Diao Da) to deal a hand is Hook [Gou], to retract a hand is Hang [Qua]. Leaking [Lou] is to deal a hand and retract a hand. Plucking [Cai] is following a hand in to enter. Contacting [Zhan] is helping [Bang] which is rolling [Gun] and cleaving [Pi]. Sticking [Nian] is to seize [Na]. Pasting [Tie] is to wave, cleave and split. Knocking [Kao] is a big knocking strike. Tricking [Diao] is reversed hand of Mantis’ blade. Advance [Jin] is the fist and step riding on the situation and attack. Suspending [Diao] is to raise highly opponent’s hand and launch an offensive. Striking is a collective term such as roundhouse [Quan], straight [Zhi] , Knock [Kao], leak [Lou], split [Pi], prop [Cheng], etc. They should all be named as striking [Da], T’is the meaning of attacking the opponent.

Mantis108

14

12 words

Hi What you translated was very interesting and brings up another point. The chinese language in hard to translate into english. It depends on who is doing the translatting it and one master might come up with a word he thinks better explains it, and there are different types of chinese languages. That might explain why the 12 principals have so many different words to explain them. I been researching 12 key of all the mantis systems I can find so I can better understand 12 key words in my system. If there is anyone out there that can help on my quest to understand better I’d would really appreciate it. have a nice day. singed Nobby PS. thank you for welcoming me to the forum I’m glad to be here