Oh, almost forgot the 8 internal “harmonies” of the jab
Provoking
Advancing
Measuring
Probing
Blinding
Confusing
Bothering
Interrupting
These correspond to the Ba Gua.
Yes, I just made that up.
Some jabs are delivered witha vertical fist fa_jing.
I agree with WD on the ‘use’ of the jab “on the street,” but I would probably end up using it because I train it so much.
No, the jab does not exist, thats silly talk. You hit people with your arms and legs etc, jesus.
:eek:
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[B]define “probing offense”.
You are incorrect. [/B]
sorry I did not follow up with lightning speed here tiger. I worked all night and had to spar all day, and I just found out about the Space Shuttle, so sorry if I am now a bit incoherent.
by “probeing offense” I am reffering to useing uncommited attacks to feel out an opponents range, timeing and possibly reaction patterns. In a fight with a known limit to time of contact (ie rounds) and a single opponent, feeling them out is a good idea.
However in a as I said “quote/unquote” street fight this is not always a good idea, and can be a very bad idea. Now of course it’s best to be a skilled aggressor, but every time you jab I also learn your reach, your timeing and maybe some idea of your reaction patterns. A skilled defender can exploit this, in much the same way a skilled aggressor can exploit timidity or hesitation on the part of the defender.
If i am going to throw a limb at someone I want it to hit something! now I don’t alway get my wish, but I’d guess I make contact at least 80 percent of the time.
BTW was a post deleted, or are you calling me a shaolin master? I’m not even a student!
Originally posted by Watchman
In fact, ST00’s description of the “finger-jab to the eye” that is used to disrupt an opponent’s timing and balance sounds a lot like Biu Sau to me.
As I WC guy I agree with Watchman, partialy cause I’m afraid he’ll sic JWT’s weiner dog on me if I don’t, but mostly cause he is right.
but I think we would all have a good laugh at the poor kung fu guy that threw Biu sau after Biu sau at a good MMA guy before getting taken down and pounded to dust.
LOL yes the jab is very real in combat, whether street, ring, where ever.
like others here have said, it serves a lot of strategic purposes.
traditional kung fu has examples of jab-like techniques, although they are generally not trained like western boxing jabs. for example bil jee (sp?) in wing chun is fast direct open hand strike, usually to the eyes, temple or throat, that can be used to initiate contact, start the bridge and distract to set up other strikes, much like a jab.
i was in a altercation where i threw a jab (1st strike) that surprised and disoriented the guy so much that he pretty much folded after that and was wide open for follow ups and a takedown that ended the fight. don’t underestimate the jab.
Watchman… agree but query on ‘working the jab’…:
Do boxers really work the jab continuously?! Of course they do, but if they have the option they too will follow up with something bigger and better…
so what’s the difference strategically (not mechanically obviously!) between the boxer’s use and the WCers?
If I can feed my lead my punch through, I do. I try to let it have enough power to cause some damage. But if not, it could be as MP described, or changed into any of Fajing’s nicely put 8 principles! Surely, that’s WC? If I can punch I punch, nearest weapon to nearest target: if it’s interrupted I change into a bridge, or change angles, stick and punch again. So is this not a way of using the jab to control range and contact with the opponent, a la boxing?
And of course the jab can be a finisher, if well timed and powered (though rarely, like Crimson says). But I will likely need to punch again with my lead hand in WC (as it is still likely to be the closest weapon to the target) without retracting it too far, I will do. If I can hit once, I’ll try and hit twice… etc.
So Odder, by the same token, why would a jab be uncommitted? I don’t mean you need to lean all the way forwards in some over-committed demonstration-video stooge kind of way, but you’re still aiming to use your jab as a feeler which can deliver real power if uninterrupted (or should I say, vice versa!). Of course, with a jab, you also aim to hit something!
(And no, before anybody suggests it, I’m not advocating continuous inneffective chain-punching nonsense, of course you are changing angles of delivery and optimising your footwork as you move… a la boxing…!!!).
Anybody who says a ‘jab-type’ offensive strategy is not effective in a real altercation has probably never seen a real altercation, much less been in one.
Water D: agree completely on your analysis of when and when not… ST001: yes, we all laugh at the Seagal image but we’ve all seen some putz run in like a steam-train and get taken down and owned in the ring, without the need for a jab, and I for one, have seen someone in the same scenario in a pub get picked up and dumped on his head on a pool table… scooby-doo attacks do exist!
So Odder, by the same token, why would a jab be uncommitted? I don’t mean you need to lean all the way forwards in some over-committed demonstration-video stooge kind of way, but you’re still aiming to use your jab as a feeler which can deliver real power if uninterrupted (or should I say, vice versa!). Of course, with a jab, you also aim to hit something!
a jab needn’t be uncommited, and a good jab IMHO as I said in my first post isn’t. I have spared with people whom use what I am refering to as a probeing offense, and it is not to hard to watch those first few jabs, time them, then enter after the third.
Believe me, as a WC person I do not accociated committed with overexteneded.
good point, stumble…