redangel, - yep.
run, save yourself from this futile argument while you can.
LOL@ ST00 - it’s informative to watch anyway, you seem to know your stuff so I might just stick around a little bit. Thanks for the sport fighting terms thread by the way! IT might help clear up some of the clutter, in my head and on this forum!
Shaolin master, I am not so sure about the whole bleeding to death thing, getting hit between the eyes. People get hit there all the time without bleeding to death, although seeing stars I can see, but a good shot to the head anywhere will most likely get them spinning anyway.
In real combat you’d have no eyes left! Also It easier to damage the nerve below the forehead just above the nose fairly quickly at which time you’d bleed and die(or see very many pretty stars)! and like a million other things so why waste time.
WTF are you talking about? You’re not even on the right page..
Fact is REAL would mean your death as your so cencerned with prep and measuring that you have just been torn apart…
False. I’m the skilled aggressor.
I refuse to argue about fighting with the ignorant. the end.
Jabs interrupt forward progress and disrupt an opponents intentions.
Lovely. What’s not to like?
Hmm… ShaolinTiger00, I dont think we disagree really..
No need to come down on someone that is trying to learn. I am sure there are some people out there that may have even seen the great Shaolin Tiger00 punching the heavy bag for the first time with his elbows sticking out to the side and shoulders all tight.. Everyone has to learn somehow. Even Ali. Its better than someone asking if Jump Kicks exist in combat 
Originally posted by Merryprankster
[B]Jabs interrupt forward progress and disrupt an opponents intentions.
Lovely. What’s not to like? [/B]
The fact that they interrupt forward progress. When I fight, I want to be real close, bodt to body. If the other guy wants to go ahead and do that for me, why would I want to stop him.
Like anything else, this is a real subjective topic that depends on a whole range of circumstances. For example, in a ring fight, the opponent will naturally be more cautios. I need the jab to open him up and enter. On the street, he will probably come at me full bore with everything he has. To me, that is an opportunity. If my fighting style wasa different, maybe it wouldn’t be.
The fact that they interrupt forward progress. When I fight, I want to be real close, bodt to body. If the other guy wants to go ahead and do that for me, why would I want to stop him.
WD ******, you should know better!
You want to close the gap on your terms, not when he dictates it! If you jab/cross or jab uppercut him then your clinch is well under way and the struggle from him is already reduced.
You control the fight, no matter the range.
Shaolin Tiger, I think you should know better. If wants to charge me full force, arm ****ed back, all I have to do is let him come in, turn with him, and he’s thrown. If he’s doing what I want him to do anyway, I’m still in control. He just doesn’t realize it yet.
In the ring, or against a cautious fighter the whole scenario changes and I WILL rely on my jab to open him up.
If you’re a striker, and some guy wants to just unload everything he has, do you stop him or just cover up and let him wear himself out? If he wants to do you a favor, let him.
all I have to do is let him come in, turn with him, and he’s thrown.
- We’re ready for your cameo Mr. Segal :rolleyes:
I would not discount the jab, it provides excellent cover with the lead shoulder and it can be very solid in its own right if you got some good body work behind it, enough to put a man down if done from a skilled fighter.
Muhammad Ali had a sweet jab.
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[B]all I have to do is let him come in, turn with him, and he’s thrown.
- We’re ready for your cameo Mr. Segal :rolleyes: [/B]
Think more of head lock hip throw (neck surrounding) than wrist lock :rolleyes:
The jab really DOES NOT exist. There’s no such thing. It’s like a female with good looks who cooks and cleans. em.
Originally posted by Water Dragon
Shaolin Tiger, I think you should know better. If wants to charge me full force, arm ****ed back, …
The edit software definetly needs an overhaul!!! Maybe he shouldda said an arm “caulked” back 
Anyways now I’ve studied a little kung fu I don’t think I would use a jab, it goes against a few WC principles as I understand them. However, back in the day I could set up real nice with jabs. Those were the days:cool:
later
-David
Don’t get me wrong David, I LOVE the jab. It’s probably my best technique. But one needs to understand when to use a tech and when not to as well as the why’s for both situations.
There’s alot of eye-jabbing while entering in Kuntao aswell.
The jab exists, yes, and it’s reall useful either as a warning/psychological strike (“don’t get to close”, like cats do), or as a set-up for the blow(s) that will make the opponent go down, like many pointed out.
But…yes, there’s a but. Think about that a little: you are really ****ed off for whatever reason. Your adrenaline pumps. You clench your fists. You want to take the guy in front of you down hard and fast. Will you be using a jab…probably no (unless, that’s quite possible, you’re a boxer for who “jab then hard cross” became bread and butter to the point it’s a second nature).
Nevertheless, the jab, we all feel it, is NOT a decisive technique, in the sense that you would never use a jab to KO someone.
When you are heated and all you have on your mind is “the sucker’s going down”, you probably won’t use a jab. To be able to use a jab means that you kept your cool, your mind is clear and you have a plan. It doesn’t happen that often in a heated streetfight, really.Or at least I should say maybe I’m not good enough to feel like that in a fight, before all you supermen start flaming away at my comment…
It’s the same thing for the guy in front. Imagine HE’s really ****ed off this time…he wants to take you down…you didn’t do much things to get into a fight, yet you know it’s coming down on you, and pressure is building. Chances are the guy in front won’t use a jab to start you on. And unless you are totally confident/superior to your opponent, you will have a hard time resisting the urge to reply to a big hard haymaker by anything other than a big smashing blow as well, whatever it is…but in all probability it will hardly be a jab.
What I want to say is that 1) of course the jab exists and is pretty useful, but 2) in a heated streetfight, it will probably not show up that much, unless either opponent for some reason managed to keep his/her cool facing the adversity. But by definition, in a heated streetfight it’s very hard to keep your cool…
I also seen another problem: I seen some tough guys (they proved tough afterwards, not at first sight) going in, TAKING the jab, but making the other one go down in the end, either by bringing him down, or by shooting himself a much harder blow. It’s like a chess player trading its horse for the opponent’s queen. Of course he lost a good piece, yet his loss is far greater than this opponent’s and in the end it counts. Some guys out there are very very resilient to taking light punches (in which I classify the jab). The problem is that with these guys, the disabling/disorienting effect that makes the jab so useful sometimes is almost nonexistent there.
I would tend to say that the more violent the fight is, the less the jab is seen…but that’s just my personal experience…and also, based on my personal experience, even if the jab can be a very very useful tool, there are just times when I’d rather not play the jab game too much, because I feel it is risky…
Crimson Phoenix, thanks, thats pretty much what I was thinking.
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
You want to close the gap on your terms, not when he dictates it!
It is more fun, and more effective sometimes, to use his terms against him. Borrow his momentum to disrupt his ballance and get him out of position. Borrow his force to enhance your strikes. I really love opponents that charge like a bull straight up my center. But I see your point- there are some folks I try not to let close on those terms. For example, those **** Ving Tsun guys. I guess what I’m saying is keep your options open, don’t limit yourself. But for sure know why you are using a particular option.
Hmm. I subscribe to the theory that a punch is a punch…I use my lead at times in the same way as a jab - - Only that I punch with a vertical fist. And even in this description, one could easily break it down to different energys, such as crisp, snappy,heavy or stiff. If I could think of another, I’d call it the 5 elements (j/k)
Or, what MonkeySlapToo said.