Do you SPAR!? WHY NOT!!!!!!

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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Okay peeps.
Let’s face the facts now. We all love wing chun etc etc. But how many of you can REALLY put it to use? Really. Do you think you can? Or do you KNOW you can.

Do you spar at your school/dojo/kwoon? If not…why not? If you don’t, how do you KNOW you can use what you learn? So you’re great at chi-sao…big whoopee! What do you do when someone throws a jab at you. A simple, haymaker? A single leg takedown? What then?

On this forum we know most of you don’t spar or don’t even know what sparring is & have never seen it or done it. And no, “spontaneous chi-sao” while useful, is NOT sparring.

My question is this; how can you in good consicence continue to practice this way and not “pressure test” the things you learn?

All I read about on here is which “style” of WC is the best etc blah blah blah. Well wanna know which style is the best? THE ONE THAT SPARS! That’s it. Simple. Sparring is where you know if you’re doing it right or not. Sparring is spontaneous reaction to unknown “commited” attacks. It can be agreed upon sparring (like kickboxing) or it can be “Scenario sparring” (sucker punch attack drills with reaction counters). How many of you do this at all?

Oh and don’t bore me with the wc isn’t meant for sport nonsene. I know that already. there’s a reason why or a beeter way to put it, but that’s for later. I specifically mentioned “scenario sparring” since most WC don’t ‘kickbox’. Do you do that? IMO, the guys who do sparring the most are the “LOT-SAU” pepople. you know the WT/EBMAS group. The more you spar (even if it is “isolated sparring” like in EBMAS/WT), the better off you are as a fighter.

Of course WT?EBMAS isn’t the ONLY plcae to find wing chun ‘sparring’ but its it ALWAYS there. Not so in other WC branches. Ok…so how many of you feel you’re missing somethign by not sparring? be honest.

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Tiera?

That you?
<Alright, with the KenWingJitsu handle it’s gotta be>

Did I mis-spell your name?

Wanna train sometime this week or next?

Private message me if so, or hit my e-mail at <razorbladekiss23@yahoo.com>

Later,

Andrew

P.S. Word is Jannis is coming. I have some plans. Details later.

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Andrew!!! Yes it’s me. lol And it’s spelled "Dh"ira, but the “Dh” is pronounced “T” so it sounds like “Tira”.

Yannis is coming? Awesome…talk about sparring haha! He is the man. We can train next week. I’ll e-mail you.

T

(The rest of you…start sparring..or learn some Lot-sau) :smiley:

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I’ve used my Wing Tsun at my Karate class semi-effectively.

Though, those guys pointspar…

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We do spar at are school but only after 3 years or so of training and then we have to ware full body protection.
I have not reached that stage yet but am curious to know how you can spar using wing chun,we have always been told in a violent confrontation to finish a fight as quickly as possible(seconds) using chops to the throat,eye jabs and various other vicious attacks.
I do not see how you could have full contact wing chun sparing without somebody getting seriously hurt.
I would love to be able to spar using wing chun but what are the rules?

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KWJ! Things get boring on the Underground?

I do not see how you could have full contact wing chun sparing without somebody getting seriously hurt.

You spar with protective gear (gloves, mouthguards, shin pads, and maybe headguards and whatever else) and avoid shots to obvious weak areas (throat groin eyes joints etc.) Kinda like … well … kickboxing and/or MMA rules.

You are being oversold WC if someone is telling you it’s “too deadly” to spar with. Bruce Lee, William Cheung, WSL, etc. would have killed people in those HK rooftop fights, wouldn’t they? And certain others claiming 300+ streetfights would be doing hard time in jail or facing a needle if their art was as deadly as claimed, would they not?

In our school we spar in both kickboxing and vale tudo formats (we are a Machado BJJ associate school as well). People usually start after about 6 months, once they have some basic tools and some clue about how to apply them. Usually semi contact, with an optional weekly session for the hard nuts.

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I think Lat-Sao is a good introduction to free form fighting especially when you progress through the system, although we also have a monthly fight club which has a lot of conditioning exercises and sparring as well.
regards and Happy New Year
Peter

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in my school we spar, you just have to be ready for it

you wont be able to walk in and spar your first day. since we dont use any gear (except a cup), control, trust, and anger management are all big parts of it. our sparring classes are closed door, invite only. i’d bet almost half of the students that i train with dont even know about them.

i dont know how many other schools are like this? but it works well for us

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my take on wing chun is that you train the tools given to you so that your body reacts with the right tool based on the situation. there is sparring or kuen faut classes offered at schools for people who feel comfortable with sparring and some students even meet up outside of class to practice. and as for training for a sucker punch or strike if it is a true sucker punch you are getting hit regardless. you can only train to recover from one

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KenWingJitsu…

That was beautiful. So many people seem to think that sparring will “mar the perfection of technique” (quotes intentional). If you don’t spar you’re kidding yourself.

As an aside…what is this “lot sao” stuff?

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We spar at the school I go to and I really like the system used.

Here is how it works, the most experianced get out front and the most inexperianced spar with them, then the next level up in experiance and so on until the most experianced are sparring with eachother.

I like the fact that you are sparring with someone heaps better than you. With this method you can learn from their movements and feel how they do things differently (and better) than yourself.

Then after you spar you can see the next level up spar and see how their movements/techniques differ from yours and again how you can improve.

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lot/lat sao simply involves beginning engagement prior to contact.

We have always had lat sao- but we do it differently than the
Kernspecht folks.

joy chaudhuri

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****..can’t go anywhere without being recognized lol.

anerlich…who are you n the UG? Yes that place is stale.

straightblast, lot-sao is the “sparring program” of the WT branch. Hard to explain but you basically isolate your attack s& responses; start an close (clinch) range but staright punches at each other instead of clinching, one person attacks form the punches, the other reacts or gets hit, etc etc. It can be done progressively or turn by turn, or like close range sparring where one person just goes for attacks all out & the other has to defend & counter.

yuafen; how do you do lot sau differently?

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Questions about lot/lat sao

Originally posted by KenWingJitsu
[snip] …lot-sao is the “sparring program” of the WT branch. Hard to explain but you basically isolate your attack s& responses; start an close (clinch) range but staright punches at each other instead of clinching, … [snip]

Does lot/lat sao start with you & your opponent’s hands in contact? Are the attacks limited to straight punches?

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Let’s face the facts now. We all love wing chun etc etc. But how many of you can REALLY put it to use? Really. Do you think you can? Or do you KNOW you can.
Do you spar at your school/dojo/kwoon? If not…why not? If you don’t, how do you KNOW you can use what you learn?

I really know I think I can, but I don’t know if I can think that, really.

Many factors may come to play should I ever NEED to use my kung fu. So I train for what I can and hope I’ll bring my skills to bear should the time come.

Yes I spar, and yes I can use my kung fu while sparring. That tells me I can use my skills while sparing, not that i’ll be able to do the same in a “real” situation.

So you’re great at chi-sao…big whoopee! What do you do when someone throws a jab at you. A simple, haymaker? A single leg takedown? What then?

I’m hardly great at chi sau. As for jabs, hooks, haymakers, and the like, I faced these many times before i ever put on sparing mits. First the were fed to me (ie im gonna hit you with some right hand jabs, heres some jab / hooks, heres a jab/hook/takedown) then I had to meet them (ie im gonna jab and/or jab/hook at you, you respond) then I had to face hem (ok im gonna try and hit you at some point here, stop me) All long before I ever spared.

On this forum we know most of you don’t spar or don’t even know what sparring is & have never seen it or done it. And no, “spontaneous chi-sao” while useful, is NOT sparring.

so what is sparring?

Sparring is spontaneous reaction to unknown “commited” attacks. It can be agreed upon sparring (like kickboxing) or it can be “Scenario sparring” (sucker punch attack drills with reaction counters).

I thought chi sau wasn’t sparring? “Spontaneous reaction to unknown “commited” attacks” sounds like a good session of advanced chi sau to me. It begins at a predetermined range, sets up (ie begins the “roll”) and then you go.

I agree with chi sau not being sparing, but why isn’t it from your definition?

My question is this; how can you in good consicence continue to practice this way and not “pressure test” the things you learn?

is sparring the only way to test yourself? your techniques?

I “spar” in kwoon much the same way as TjD. Cup only, control is the key. I wear required gear outside of the kwoon.

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sparring…

Don’t kid yourself, and don’t waste your training time. If you don’t “KNOW”, sparring ain’t gonna help ya.

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Does lot/lat sao start with you & your opponent’s hands in contact? Are the attacks limited to straight punches?

No. It satrts with you and your partner PUNCHING at each other…chan\in punching at close range and the only thing that might stop you from getting hit is the fact that your arms are punchingstaright forward, into his punches.

I agree with chi sau not being sparing, but why isn’t it from your definition?

Chi-sao is not sparring because you will never start a REAL altercation in the same position as you start chi-sao. Even when you’re being spontaneous, it’s NOT sparring. It’s sontaneous chi-sao.

If you want sparring, it should BEGIN the same way it would beging on the street. With Someone trying to really punch you.

Yes I spar, and yes I can use my kung fu while sparring. That tells me I can use my skills while sparing, not that i’ll be able to do the same in a “real” situation.

Then there’s no problem here. If you spar then you already know that you can do it for real under pressure and still react. But remember…there are basically 2 types of “sparring”. Scenario or ‘street’ sparring, and ‘honorable combat sparring’ (kickboxing-like). You should paractice them both and try to keep your attacks & responses simple.

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No. It satrts with you and your partner PUNCHING at each other…chan\in punching at close range and the only thing that might stop you from getting hit is the fact that your arms are punchingstaright forward, into his punches

We do that too. Is that all there is to it? I lost a lot of skin off my wrists the 1st few times I did that :wink:

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anerlich…who are you n the UG? Yes that place is stale.

My handle there is ajn - I don’t post there very often but lurk a lot. Seems like a lot of the good posts have already been made, and appear on Stickgrappler’s site. I’ve started spending more time on Sherdog.

I hope you guys that spar with cup only have good dental insurance. If I could choose one piece of protective equipment only, I’d take the mouthguard over a cup every time.

If you don’t “KNOW”, sparring ain’t gonna help ya.

If you don’t spar, “KNOWING” ain’t gonna help ya neither.

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"Is that all there is to it? I lost a lot of skin off my wrists the 1st few times I did that "

No. There’s a LOT more to it. Yhat’s just the begining step. You are not obligated to just punch. You can move in & tackle, uppercut, hook, knee elbow clinch, whatever. Your partner never knows what you’re gonna do, he just has to fight back by reacting & countering while trying to keep his balance & structure.

anerlich. wassup man, I baguely remember your name. ya it’s true all the good posts are done over there lol. Now it’s all the recycled stuff from the same people.

“If you don’t spar, “KNOWING” ain’t gonna help ya neither.” Word up brother; Amen!!!