An open question do you feel wing Chun is a complete martial Art. If so Why? How do you define a complete Martial Art? Can any martial art really be complete?
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WCK is a complete method onto itself..
WCK (YipMan) does not traditionally cover all ranges of combat, eg, ground/grappling.
As the man said…“be like water my friend”.
Even if Wc does not have grappling, ground fighting in its game etc. if one trains with guys who do and you are able to prevent or give them a hard time does that make WC a complete art?
It should be a complete striking art with no qualification.
Do you practice a complete Martial Art?
Does anybody?
With the possible exception of Sambo, who can say that their art is legitimately complete?
And that’s only because Sambo was historically a mixture of boxing, karate, judo, and catch wrestling.
It seems to me the better question is: “Should people try to complete their training with other arts?”
Wing chun- as complete as any. The challenge is to adapt it to circumstances,
joy chaudhuri
Joy is correct.
All good martial artists are continually evolving and reinventing themselves and their practices. Hopefully we re not dogmatists or fundamentalists.
Even if Wc does not have grappling, ground fighting in its game etc. if one trains with guys who do and you are able to prevent or give them a hard time does that make WC a complete art?
THe man in the glass booth would demand to see your video 
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;997347] The challenge is to adapt it to circumstances,[/QUOTE]
True. And with a little imagination…
Define complete.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;997393]Define complete.[/QUOTE]I asked this question to see if there was a definitive
answer to the question. To me, It depends on how you define a complete MA. In another forum this group of people who study the same art and from the same teacher defined it as a MA that includes, punching, kicking,throwing,etc in its training. I told them to me I would call it a comprehensive system but still not complete as any art is always changing and evolling how could it be completing complete? To me there is no such thing. They are many good MA but they are not complete IMO. We as humans also have weakness in some area. We’ll never be fully complete no matter how hard or how long we train. Wing Chun was designed IMO as a simple system to accomplish multiple tasks in the shortest and simplest possible time. As time is limited one can never fully reach the mountain top but one can surly climb it.
You are correct, there are no complete systems.
One of the best ways to “measure” how complete your system is, is to compare a part of it with a system that specializes in it.
EX:
Your WC ( since this is a WC forum) has stick work, how compelte is it?
Compare it with a system like Lacosta Escrima or Pekiti-Tirsia Kali.
Your WC has standing grappling?
Compare it with freestyle or greco-roman wrestling, or JJJ.
Etc, etc.
Sometimes what we may perceive as complete is “just enough” to get us killed.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;997492]You are correct, there are no complete systems.
One of the best ways to “measure” how complete your system is, is to compare a part of it with a system that specializes in it.
EX:
Your WC ( since this is a WC forum) has stick work, how compelte is it?
Compare it with a system like Lacosta Escrima or Pekiti-Tirsia Kali.
Your WC has standing grappling?
Compare it with freestyle or greco-roman wrestling, or JJJ.
Etc, etc.
Sometimes what we may perceive as complete is “just enough” to get us killed.
:D[/QUOTE]
or as some would put it jack of all trades and masters of non:D
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;997492]You are correct, there are no complete systems.
One of the best ways to “measure” how complete your system is, is to compare a part of it with a system that specializes in it.
EX:
Your WC ( since this is a WC forum) has stick work, how compelte is it?
Compare it with a system like Lacosta Escrima or Pekiti-Tirsia Kali.
Your WC has standing grappling?
Compare it with freestyle or greco-roman wrestling, or JJJ.
Etc, etc.
Sometimes what we may perceive as complete is “just enough” to get us killed.
:D[/QUOTE]
This is a good idea.One always needs feedback and see how one is progressing. I do this to a degree myself but I don’t pick a greco-roman wresting to test my grappling. I just train with different people who have trained in many types of arts and see how I do. All styles at some point will use more or less every mode of attack. After awhile you will get a fair assessment about your skill level.
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;997506]This is a good idea.One always needs feedback and see how one is progressing. I do this to a degree myself but I don’t pick a greco-roman wresting to test my grappling. I just train with different people who have trained in many types of arts and see how I do. All styles at some point will use more or less every mode of attack. After awhile you will get a fair assessment about your skill level.[/QUOTE]
not really you should test your abilities in a particular area against the best people in that area you can find, up until then you can be deluding yourself about hoe good you are at that skill. I thought my sprawl was good (i trained it against other kung fu stylists and kick boxers) the first time a good free style guy shot on me i realised i sucked at stopping the shot, i was not used to people turning the corner, sitting out etc.. Same way i thought my clinch was ok until i went against a guy now fighting in the UFC to say that was an eye opener was an understatment (actually it was more a eye closer as i went to sleep for a bit halfway through the sparring session)
Ok I’ll keep that idea in mind..I had a friend of mind whose done many styles like karate, arnis,judo,wing chun,gracie JJ, akido and a few other style try his hand with a friend of his whose a state wristing champ. My friiend my pinned everytime in a a few seconds!!
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;998581]Ok I’ll keep that idea in mind..I had a friend of mind whose done many styles like karate, arnis,judo,wing chun,gracie JJ, akido and a few other style try his hand with a friend of his whose a state wristing champ. My friiend my pinned everytime in a a few seconds!![/QUOTE]
A prime example of a jack of all trades vs a master of one…
Grappling is instinctive by nature in the fact that people want to grab and cover as soon as the sh!t hits the fan, the only thing is the grab/cover is done unskillfully. Striking on the other hand is much harder to succeed at simply because you have much less control while standing toe to toe with someone striking, as compared to taking someone down and sitting on them, which in some cases is all you may need to do with an assailant bent on harming you. The problem is you don’t want to grapple on the street, as you don’t know how many assailants you are dealing with. With striking at the least you can hit and run if necessary.
IMO the word complete MA is just another catch phrase, like other’s in the past, Original, Traditional, Authentic, bla bla bla… Its someone’s idea of putting things into a box, which is a result of too much thinking. How do you put random combative movement in a box? When you find out let me know:)
James
make the system work for you. don’t be a slave to the system. don’t miss the moon for the pointing finger. blah blah blah.
even with a complete system, a lot will never master it. it is what it is. i think wing chun is a complete system on paper, tho. not sure how many people are willing to dedicate the time and energy to it (a lifetime) to master anything anymore and on top if it, find someone to teach them with the same intensity. i got lucky with good teachers, so i’m happy. took half my life to find, tho.
[QUOTE=sihing;998619]
IMO the word complete MA is just another catch phrase, like other’s in the past, Original, Traditional, Authentic, bla bla bla… Its someone’s idea of putting things into a box, which is a result of too much thinking. How do you put random combative movement in a box? When you find out let me know:)
James[/QUOTE]
Well said! 