Traditionally rice wine was used. Most of the Jow’s I use are now vodka based for a couple of reasons: cost, alchohal content, stickiness, and smell.
The reality is, vodka did not exist in china when most of the recipes were developed. Also, if you have use a rice wine based Jow, you now that it is stickier, smells different and tends to ball up the hair in the area you use it on, moreso than the vodka.
I have not made the Yeow and can’t help you with the type of oil used. I have only been briefly involved in the creation of the Darn and Yuen.
Please don’t take this wrong, but my Sifu would not want me to give away any knowledge that I have about making the Dit Da. He paid huge amounts of money for the knowledge. I have, in turn, paid for what little I know. To give it away on an internet Forum would not be wise. I hope you understand.
It is good to see that there are some traditional arts left which include herblore. I was beginning to think that all CMA in the US was Karate or Tae Kwan Doe with a made up Kung Fu name attached to it.
I understand your meaning. I wasn’t looking for a recipe from you but a more historical-type answer. I make a few jows now and I don’t think I have room for another one. Have a good day.
Damian, In the tit da yau recipe I have, sesame oil is used to extract the principles of the herbs which are gently simmered in it for a period of time. After the proscribed period, the dregs were removed and the oil bottled.
BSH, I learned the tit da recipes as four types: tong - soup (decocted in water), jau - wine, yau - oil (ointment), and gou (plaster). Is your tit da yuen the ground medicine formed into a ball then covered with wax to preserve it? One of my teachers use to have dozens of these on hand which he would give out to the students to make their own tit da jau. It made it very convenient to store and easy to measure out. You can still find the commercial ones in the Chinese herb stores. And your tit da darn, is that the same as tit da gou?
eightgates - From your reply it sounds like you cook your jows? How long do they take to cook. I have one recipe that takes for hours. I’d rather just add the vodka and put it on the shelf but I like cooking it because the recipe contains camphor - Lung Nao Hsiang/Bing Pian and the aroma is so good.
Only some of the recipes I have require cooking, the tit da yau is one for instance (about 2 and 1/2 - 3 hours). Although I was given the recipe, I never got around to making it since I already had 4 or 5 other bottles of recipes soaking on the side. Besides that, I also took into account that my teacher said his wife use to complain because of the smell and the oily smoke. I don’t particularly care for the ointment types of tit da, but since this thread brought up the subject, maybe I’ll give it a try and see how it turns out. There are a few soaking recipes I have that require either some light simmering or steaming with water of some of the materials to release certain properties before soaking. Other recipes require the dry materials to be ground into fine powder first. They are then either soaked or used in the tit da gou recipes.
As BSH said, it’s nice to hear that some people, such as yourself, are keeping the preparation of some of the tit da medicines traditions alive. Nowadays, so many people seem to be enamoured with the power of the Shaolin tradition that they forget the monks were well versed in healing too.
I am not familiar with the plaster (Gau), so I can’t tell you if it is similar. You are right about the Yuen. The ones I take are eaten straight. My Sifu has talked about making Yuen of the type your teacher used to have. The idea is to have a Jow that is more portable. Easier to travel with and ship.
What styles are you learning that contain herblore? It is so rare these days.
My first teacher was my cousin’s maternal grandfather who practised Choi Ga Boxing. When I first met him I was still in high school and he was 74 years old, but he could do handstands and outmaneuver all of us kids including an ex-marine who was a member of the class. He was born in China in 1898 and during that time doctors were scarce in the country side where he grew up and people had to learn to take care of themselves for the most part. From what he told me, he first learned how to use herbs from his father-in-law who gave him a hand written book of the family recipes for various ailments common at the time. Some of the book contained various tit da recipes which were used for injuries sustained from falling off horses, getting hurt by falling objects such as dropping a rock on your foot while clearing a field, knife cuts, etc. My teacher continued to write down other recipes he gathered over the years and he later gave me the book since I was the only one interested in the field. Over the years, I learned a little bit more from my next Siu Lum teacher, elderly friends of my family and one of my Taijiquan teachers who was a practising accupuncturist and herbalist.
The herbs for tit da gou are first finely ground then mixed with beeswax to form a plaster. It can then be dried between strips of linen and stored for use. Before using, they would melt the wax with a flame then apply it to the afflicted area (yes, it’s pretty hot!) and then covered over with cloth and taped to the body. Sometimes, tin chut powder would be sprinkled on it first to increase it’s efficacy. Another simplier and traditional way to make the gou is to mix animal fat or egg white with the medicinal powder as an adhesive. The only thing is that you can’t keep these on as long as the beeswax (once I had to leave a plaster on for 3 days) since the animal proteins break down quite quickly and start to putrify (not a pretty smell either).
Keep up the good work, it sounds like you are a fine credit to your teacher!
~If you can find HuGu please be aware that is it very expensive because it is illegal to sell or buy in the US, Canada, most parts of Europe and most parts of Asia. Of course in Asia, the laws are written to keep Westerners happy and can probably be found for a price. My reccomendation is to find someone in Cali or one of the other western states that has a lottery for hunting Mountain Lions, (or better yet enter the lottery yourself) and try get the bones of those if you can. Also, I know people who use Bobcat bones as well. If you use bones other than real tiger bones, you should increase the amount used. Also, if you go into a Chinese herb store and ask to buy Tiger Bone they will most likely tell you NO. A few will sell you what is called “hugujiao” that is a solidified jelly made from tiger bone and marrow. This is actually a pretty good substitute if it is genuine. But like the Tiger bone itself, it is pretty expensive and has the same sort or legal restrictions. Some stores might sell you what they call Tiger Bone, (for the stupid laowai), but in actuality it will be pig bones. Then, dont be suprised if they call the police on you. I know people have have done this!
~There are a few good recipies that I know of that dont use Tiger Bone at all and still produce some pretty good results.
~If you are interested in some quality jow, email me and I might be able to set you up. Be warned though, I might take a few months to get back to you.
Just wanted to extend my sincerest thanks and appreciation to those who took part in this thread. To some extent, the making of good liniments is another fading art but from the response of this thread it just might take some time. If I can ever be of asisstance to anyone for whatever reasons please feel free to email me. Happy Easter to all of you and thanks again.
A good Jow should be balanced and promote blood circulation. The quality not the quantity of herbs used in preparing Jow is important. Just because a jow contains, for example, 24 herbs does not necessarily make it a good one. Train well.
I took a look at the website you mentioned and this is my opinion:
(1) If you are not familiar with herbs you don’t know what you are getting.
(2) What herbs are used in this formula? Hopefully, they will tell you???
(3) $25 a kit is alot of money. If you knew how to make your own Jow, you could add a few dollars to the $25 and make enough Jow for a couple of years.
(4) I noticed that this company uses plastic bottles. You should never purchase a Jow in a plastic bottle. No matter how good the Jow is, it will lose its potency. By the way, when you prepare the Jow you purchased from that company, make sure you find a glass, 1 gallon, container to “stew” your Jow. If you have to cook this Jow DO NOT USE A STEEL POT. Use a ceramic/crock pot.
They said that they don’t make the jow for you. They send you the herbs and you make it yourself. Since I got recipes from the same website, I’m under the impression that they use the ingredients in said recipes.
The Iron Palm Jow might be a Jow specifically designed for Iron Palm training or it might be a made up name for random ingredients thrown together and called a Jow.
Find out more about where the recipe came from. Seek the source.
dfe****o is right. I would be very suspicious based on the plastic bottles.
Most websites who sell you the herbs and let you make it are not someone I would trust.
dfe****o, do you really think $25 is a lot for quality Jow. I have paid 10 to 100 times more for Jow and it was worth it. Of course, those are specialized Jow’s. Or do you think that $25 is too much for a Jow kit? I guess I need clarification on what comes in a kit and what is expected of the buyer.
For an example, for a particular recipe I purchase 4 ounces of each herb, 14 herbs in the recipe. It cost me under $50 (don’t have the exact cost in front of me)for the herbs. With these herbs I make 5 gallons of Jow. So now BSH, what do you think?? The $25/gallon is fine for someone who has no training in herbs/herbal formulas. If we would know what went into that kit, I don’t believe either one of us would purchase it. I have paid my dues as well. When I began making Jow I was taken for a ride twice ($150)for this recipe and I don’t want that to happen to someone else. The purpose of this thread is to help my fellow MA’s in their Herbal knowledge and Jow preparations.
Agreed. I guess the difference is trust and knowledge. My thought process is the following:
If I know the formula, I will get the herbs myself, unless they are extinct and can only be purchased from an individual who has it. If I didn’t have to pay for the formula, I would worry.
If I am buying pre-mixed herbs without the recipe listed (either Jow or ingredients and instructions), I would expect to pay two to three times the value of the herbs. Profit margin.
I am always suspect of things that sound too good to be true. I think we are both barking up the same tree. I don’t trust this supplier.
Does this place tell you everything that is in the kit??
Jumping into this thread a little late in the game, but…
I’m learning Wing Chun and my immediate lineage doesn’t have
a traditional recipe for jow, but I’ve been thinking about trying
some. I’ve heard that the store bought stuff isn’t all that great
and most of the store bought stuff comes in plastic bottles, which
I’ve read is bad. So I’ve looked around and found a few recipes
around the web and in books, but I’ve never been able to find
a place that sells the ingredients. I’m also not sure what I’m
looking for in a store. Most of the places I’ve looked in seemed
to only have pre-bottled medications behind the counter. I’ve
considered trying out one of those assemble-yourself kits, but
have been pretty hesitant.
So… starting with the assumption that I like my school and don’t
want to switch sifus (not to mention there really isn’t any other
kung fu near where I live), what would be the best way for me
to break into the wonderous world o’ jow?
BSH - It just might list the ingreients if it was on the bottle/package? Some of the glass bottles/plastic bottles of Jow I have seen list the ingredients. For example, Wing Lam’s bottle prints the ingredients in Chinese and Latin so that no one can copy his Jow. I am curious enough to want to see the ingredients of this kit.
Marshdweller (apologize, forgot your name)- Send an email to me and I will help you on your Dit Da Jow path.
Damian
To date, Damian is the only one I have chatted with who I might trust to provide Dit Da. My school is talking about releasing some Dit Da to the public in a few months and I will let you know if and when the decision is finalized. Until then, talk to Damian and see if he can help.